Some time back there was a discussion about brass locomotives.
If I remember correctly the most produced HO steam engine was thought to be a PFM Santa Fe 2-8-0,
Is that correct?
Also, which locomotives are thought to the most desirable brass steam locomotives by brand and model.
Pacific Fast Mail kept various versions of that Santa Fe consolidation available for years and it would not surprise me to learn it was the all time best seller. Not only is the ATSF one of the most popular roads for modelers, but back in the 1960s lots of guys still had their “own” railroad so they felt free to buy an engine of almost any prototype and paint it up for their road. The 2-8-0 was the perfect size for most layouts of the time.
The only other engine I can think of that might have been more popular was the Tenshodo USRA 0-8-0 because it not only came ready to run in brass, but for a long time was the last brass kit.
Back then brass was truly cataloged, and while there were limited runs they were the exception. Moreover a well stocked hobby shop would well have a large and interesting brass section, just as they would have now for plastic engines. When one would sell they might have a replacement in the back room, or they’d order one. In other words it was a different world of brass.
I suppose it should be pointed out that there were “brass” engines such as the little Ken Kidder 0-4-0 that were quite cheap and not really the sort of super detailed engine that folks are referring to with the phrase “brass locomotive.” Even American Train & Track, a train set manufacturer, offered a little “brass” switcher for a time.
There are entire books devoted to brass and brass values and prices. I have always assumed that some of the “Crown” imports that Pacific Fast Mail offered were the finest ever. Those were limited runs, generally painted and lettered, and sometimes so few were brought in that they never bothered to advertise them – word of mouth was sufficient. Often the first you’d learn of them was in the beautifully photographed PFM “catalogs” – which were catalogs more like an art gallery publishes a catalog: a display rather than a piece of sales literature. You see
Chances are the Bachmann Spectrum (now regular line) 2-8-0 has finally beaten the PFM model out. But there is no way of knowing for sure. For brass models, I see more used Ma & Pa 2-8-0s for sale at hobby shops than anything else. But that’s just my anecdotal experience. And I don’t track eBay to see what appears there most.
I have to wonder what is behind these questions. How does it matter which was produced more unless you are collecting for appreciation? The same with the desirability question - what does it matter what others consider the most desirable unless you are collecting for appreciation?
Personally, I find the desirability of a brass model to me hinges on the prototype, and the quality of the drive and detail. I could care less about how desirable anything bigger than a 2-8-0 is to others - it’s too big for my purposes. And I don’t bother with locomotives whose prototype was built after 1905. Since Belpaire fireboxes were pretty much unknown in Oregon in 1900, those prototypes are also out.
Affordability affects desirability for me, too. I’d love to have the new PSC brass small Shay - but it’s way out of price range. An FED or Kidder model is desirable brass to me because I have managed to buy a couple. I can remotor/regear and re-detail to my heart’s and wallet’s content. My likely next brass purchase will be an FED 4-4-0.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
From “The Brown Book”:
United (PFM) ATSF 2-8-0 8448 made between 1956 and 1975, largest run was 1050 in 1959
United (PFM) Ma and Pa 2-8-0 4725 made between 1956 and 1974, largest run was 502 in 1974
Tenshodo (PFM) USRA 0-8-0 2827 made between 1956 and 1963, largest run was 310 in 1960
Of the total USRA 0-8-0’s, 661 were kits
Production numbers for the various teeny little 0-4-0’s are sparse.
Ed
Thanks for the information. I have started to collect HO GN brass locomotives. I have a few brass engines from years ago and sold off some and kept a few when I left the hobby then.
Now that I am back I have an assortment of plastic HO engines for my layout, most with DCC and about half with sound.
The brass locomotives are for now strickly for a display collection. I used to live in an area with a lot of GN history and was always taken with the GN steam engines on display in the Glacier livery.
The brass questions are simply based on curiosity as to what was most popular generally. I am not interested in any brass that is not GN.
I suspect that the number of GN brass steam models that were produced were only POSSIBLY eclipsed by the number in ATSF, PRR, UP and SP. And I say possibly.
I suspect this was caused by PFM “residing” on GN trackage in Edmonds, WA. My first brass engine was a PFM GN S-1 4-8-4. And there were many GN locos after that. For that matter, I couldn’t restrain myself from reserving an upcoming GN NW-5 from Overland, even though I don’t now “officially” model GN.
Ed
I suspect that the reason was even more direct. The founder of PFM was a GN modeler.
Nobody ever mentions the biggest reasons why the Japanese manufacturers built brass, rather than die-cast (the Tenshodo 0-6-0T being a glaring exception.) Brass construction didn’t require foundry or heavy machining capability, nor did it require expensive dies. I visited the ‘factory’ that turned out those Kidder ‘plantation’ 0-4-0Ts (and those beautiful interurbans imported by Suydam) - it consisted of a couple of workers, a couple of drill presses, a punch press and some work benches with assembly jigs and soldering gear. The owner said that he could have just as easily turned out a mallet or a 2-10-4, but it would take too long to fill a complete order. He didn’t need the business.
When I started modeling Japanese prototype, the ONLY material used was brass - except for one mass (toy) manufacturer who did the same thing with galvanized sheet steel. Beautiful die-cast plastic didn’t enter the general Japanese market until years later. My rolling stock roster is mainly brass for that reason, not because I have any affinity for the material. I bought kits then, as now, and I really didn’t care what the material was. Once painted, decalled and weathered, who would be able to tell?
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)