HO gauge to O gauge narrow gauge?

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

I am going to convert to On30(On2-1/2) using my existing HO track but I understand that buying O scale and converting them for HO track is not feasable? is this correct?.

Is there equipment out there scaled to narrow gauge? and are the accessories that I might buy, buildings scenery etc. "O scale?

Could any body suggest dealers in Canada preferably, but if not then USA for this narrow gauge equipment?

I would appreciate any help I can get, because at this point I am a little confused about what the 2-1/2 means

Bill Webb

2

Bachmann makes quite a variety of On30 equipment that runs on HO track, and there are other, smaller companies, too. Check, for example, Garden Railways magazine’s advertisement by St. Aubin’s Station for On30 items. Although this dealer specializes in G scale, they have the Bachmann On30. They have a Web site at http://www.lgbpola.com but don’t list any of the On30 items on it, so you’ll need to purchase a copy of Garden Railways.

Converting existing O scale items to On30 would be difficult, if not impossible.

3

Visit this website, we try to explain On30:

http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/

On the opening webpage there is a dealer listed under “Need On30” near the bottom. John Weigel will give you the best deals.[:D] and is a real good guy.

Thank you if you visit[:p]
Harold

4

Narrow-gauge railroads used equipment that was smaller than that used by standard-gauge railroads. Thus, no, you can’t just strap HO trucks onto O scale equipment and expect it to work.

Buildings, people, animals, vehicles etcetera used with On30 are all O scale. The only difference is that the trains you are modeling, which are O scale, are models of smaller narrow-gauge equipment instead of standard-gauge equipment.

The “2-1/2” refers to 2-1/2 feet, or 30 inches (thus, On30.) In model railroad nomenclature, letters indicate scale (proportion between the model and the real world): O is 1:48, HO is 1:87, N 1:160, etcetera. An “n” after the scale indicates that one is modeling narrow-gauge equipment, rather than standard gauge.

“Standard-gauge” equipment measures a scale 4 feet 8-1/2 inches between the rails, regardless of scale. (Okay, okay, I know, O and British OO don’t, but they’re SUPPOSED to!) “Narrow gauge” is any gauge narrower than that. The most common narrow gauge in the US was 3-foot gauge, found in Western logging and mining, then 2-foot gauge, found in New England logging and industrial railways. Meter gauge (100cm) was common in Europe, and other gauges were also used–like “*** gauge” 3’6", 15" and 18" gauges used in mining and inside buildings, and 30" gauge.

Now, 30" gauge was not a very common narrow-gauge gauge. The only one I can think of is the Mattole Lumber Company, which ran one locomotive two miles in Humboldt County hauling tanbark. But 30" gauge has become a common “freelance” narrow-gauge scale, because it’s pretty easy for those who like chopping up locomotives to make other locomotives to build HO-scale 30" gauge equipment out of N scale engines, and likewise make O-scale 30" gauge equipment out of HO scale engines.

So, yeah–if you want to go On30, everything is O scale–but the trains are smaller.

Confused enough already?

5

I think I tried to figure this conundrum out before, Am I right that you can make any scale train “narrow gauge” but everything else must be brought to fit the scale of engines and cars, That would make all buildings larger–right??? sooooo-- IF a person was to take HO and say it is now Narrow Gauge, using HO track as a guide (4’8.5’‘) just assume this distance is instead now 3’ (or whatever gauge narrow is) and use this measurement for all other construction and scale, makes sense to me, but Im sure I’m wrong, see! it’s simple. I can hardly wait for replies.

6

Well, you sort of have it backwards.

4’8.5" is standard gauge, NO MATTER WHAT SCALE.

If you are modeling in HO, you are modeling trains in 1:87 scale, NO MATTER WHAT GAUGE YOU ARE USING.

So, if you are an HO modeler, if you are using track that is standard gauge in HO, you are a modeling standard gauge. If you are using track that is narrower than standard gauge in HO, you are modeling narrow gauge–HOn3, HOm (meter gauge), HOn2, HOn30, whatever.

If you are modeling O scale, you are modeling in 1:48 scale, again, no matter what gauge. If you, an O scale modeler, use track that is the same width as standard-gauge HO track (16.5mm in the real world), that track measures 30" in O scale and therefore you are modeling On30. Your buildings, people, trees, automobiles, would still be in O scale. Your trains will also be in O scale–but instead of modeling standard-gauge locomotives, you will be building models of narrow-gauge locomotives.

About the example you gave: If you take HO standard-gauge track and decide that it is now three-foot-wide narrow gauge track, you would indeed need models and equipment of an appropriate proportion to fit that measurement. Now, if HO standard-gauge track is 16.5mm wide, then this new scale you want would have scale feet 5.5mm long (since three 5.5mm “scale feet” in this context would be 16.5mm wide.)

Now, a real foot is about 305mm long. Dividing your scale foot by that real foot, you would be modeling in approximately 1:54 scale–somewhere in between S scale and O scale. I think that some modelers have used HO scale track to represent an approximation of Sn3 or SN3-1/2 (Sn42) gauge.

Rather than build every single item from scratch, most modelers will make use of an established scale, and either live with the approximation or handlay track to suit the gauge they wi***o model.

7

See how simple that was!!! har! har! har! I think I’m beginning to get it, and I hope willytrains is reading too, I think I will try to build a freight shed in narrow guage beside an existing HO loaded logging car using jetrocks advice and my limited knowledge and skill( of course the freight shed will have to be larger than an HO model-wouldn’t it ??) for example a 7 foot door to would be larger on narrow guage building than HO gauge? OOPS now I’m getting confused again. I’m going to build it now. thanks—Jetrock, I printed both your replies.

8

Bob Boudreau [:D]

9

[quote]
Originally posted by tatans

See how simple that was!!! har! har! har! I think I’m beginning to get it, and I hope willytrains is reading too, I think I will try to build a freight shed in narrow guage beside an existing HO loaded logging car.

I did it and it works and I also made a narrow gauge human to see if he would fit through the door and inside an HO engine,he does, O.K. is the freight shed and the man close to “O” gauge? I think thats what everyone is trying to tell me, by the way it looks pretty good.

10

Just remember that HO track, while the right gauge, won’t look like real track, the ties are too short, too narrow and too close together for O. You also have to watch your track centers, how far apart the tracks are. What can be fine in HO could be too close in On30. Same with curve radius and vertical clearance.

Dave H.

11

tatans: A freight shed built for an On30 layout would be exactly the same size as one built for an O scale layout.

12

Precision Scale and NWSL offer parts to put the narrow guage HO stuff under your O gauge rolling stock.

13

Atlas Code 100 looks good as O scale narrow gauge track if it is weathered and ballasted[:0]. For Pre-WW1 track the ties are the right width, 15 inches instead of 18 inches on center so it is visually acceptable for ease of application. As HO track the ties are too wide, too far apart and the rail is too large but lots of people use it. Go figure the use of out of scale track.
Just a thought
Harold[:D]

14

I recently switched to On30, after “burning out” in HO. (45 years in HO) A curious phenomena I discovered: that Bachmann’s charming little Porter 0-4-0T and 0-4-2T look perfectly comfortable, puttering about on conventional HO track. Curiously, they didn’t look quite as good on “real” On30 track. This seems to be a matter of proportion, to eyeball…for want of better words. (Please note that the Porters are, in fact, quite small as locomotives, as they were intended primarily for industrial work.) There is now a “sub-culture” within On30…devoted to these little cuties, with small firms making “Porter-sized” rolling stock to run behind them. Yup, we have fun in On30!

15

The track sold as “On30” by Peco is really 7mm-16.5 industrial tramway track. The ties are too fat at a scale 10" wide and too far apart to depict most narrow gauge track. It looks good on a logging railroad such as Paul Templar’s On30 Logging Road but is too clunky for most applications:

Visit Paul “Shamus” Templar’s On30 logging railroad:

http://www.cooncreek-and-tumbleweed-springs.co.uk/

Just a thought
Harold

16

While my main obsession right now is still electrics and early diesels, at some point I’m going to break down and make a couple of HOn30 Porters while my eyesight and hand-eye coordination is still good…I’m quite fond of Porter-style locomotives and other lightweight steam, but enjoy the scale of HO.

One plan is to put a 1x2 “micro layout” industry that uses a 30" narrow-gauge engine to haul around carts of steel pipe on my current layout. That way I can have my HOn30 cake and electrics too…

17

Well now, I finally got the right info on “HO”—“O” gauge, thanks to everyone, willytrains I hope your questions were answered. Now all I have to do is enlarge all my buildings, roads, telephone poles, bridges, people,cars, trucks etc,etc,etc. but the big time consumer will be lengthening evey single tie on the tracks and also moving them a little further apart, AND I thought I had nothing to do for the next 7 years. Thanks again for all the superb information.

18

Saw an interesting On30 modular railroad today at the Plano Train Show. These guys (who call themselves the Outlaws) run on “dead” track! All of their engines are battery powered with radio control. Several people asked how long the batteries last and their reply was that they don’t know yet. They’ve been using some batteries for several months now and those engines are still going strong (well, “strong” may be too strong a word as they only run about 10 car trains [:)]). One caveat I heard though: all engines have had their motors replaced with low current motors.

Very interesting and very tempting.

Chuck