Hi - could someone tell me - briefly - please - are any of the MDC Harriman cars of accurate prototype length or are the all too short?
Is there any publication that details the operation and train consist of the Pullmans that MDC market, especially on the Santa Fe or SP,and when were the last ones in passenger service? Did any become MofW vehicles?
Terry Bray
Terry,
I believe the MDC Harriman cars are 60’ long. That would make the baggage and RPO cars correct or real close, but will leave the coaches a little short. The prototypes were 65’ long and the diners were 75’ or 80’ long.
They are typical of models from their era, freelanced but close. This was done typically to allow use of only a few floors in a number of different cars, and, because many modelers wanted selectively compressed cars for sharper curves.
Keep this in mind, until the lightweight age, passenger cars came in an endless list of lengths from 50’ to 85’, there was no “standard” or “full size” length. Yes, most Pullman sleepers and diners were built on the same or very similar 80’ underframe, but coaches, combines, baggage cars, commuter cars, RPO’s or RPO combines, all came in a great variety of lengths. In fact less than HALF the heavy weight coaches ever built were 80’ long, most were shorter, in the 70’ to 78’ range.
As for the MDC Pullman Pallace Cars, I don’t know much about the roads you asked about, but in general wood cars of that type stayed in use into the teens. Some lasted much longer on shortlines and branchline work.
Also, completely off the topic of your questions, but interesting passenger car trivia, even some lightweight streamlined cars were less than the new 85’ “standard”.
What size curves do you have? Cars in the 60’ to 75’ range can be very good looking and work much better with sharper curves.
Sheldon
As Sheldon has mentioned, the Harriman head-end cars are of a prototypical length, while the passenger cars are somewhat shortened. These early steel cars (1909) were an attempt to produce cars to a standardised design, and were considered lightweight cars.
The MDC-style Pullman Palace cars were widely used all over North America. After the introduction of the steel heavyweight cars, some were scrapped or downgraded to secondary service, but many were “steel plated” (covered with sheet metal) and saw many more years of service. To the untrained eye, they looked very similar to the true steel heavyweights.
In this area of southern Ontario, there were many still in service in the mid-'50s on secondary lines and mixed trains, and I recall seeing them still with wood sides, too. Many were updated with steel underframes (some of these retained their truss rods, too), and, when their passenger-carrying days were over, were downgraded to work train service.
I believe MDC offered a combine, coach, Pullman, diner, and an observation car, so you could probably create a “representative” version of an SP or Santa Fe train. The window arrangements on the models may not match the prototypes exactly, but with decent paint and lettering, it should look convincing.
I’m modelling the late '30s in southern Ontario, so there are still wooden cars in secondary service. I added a steel fishbelly underframe and some underfloor details to this MDC combine:
This CNR coach retains its truss rods, but got some added underbody detail:
I even have a Harriman-style baggage car - I modified the underbody and installed six-wheel trucks:
The MDC 85’ cars represent Pullman Palace Car Co. Combines (Baggage-Lounge), Sleepers, Diners, and Sleeper-Observation cars. All four are exactly correct in their window arrangements for real Pullman cars built in the 1890’s-1900’s. Berger’s “A Century of Pullman Cars: Volume II The Palace Cars” has a lot of information on these cars and their interior plans. The Sleeper has compartments along one side and the aisle along the windows on the other side.
IIRC I used Walthers interior detail kits to model the interior of my cars about 20 years ago. I don’t think they’ve made them for a while, but I’m sure you could pick them up online or at a flea market etc.
Technically, Harriman is an improper term for these cars, they were actually Pullman common standard, but are associated most with lines affliated with Harriman interest, UP, SP IC were the most prolific users. SP had several classes for example, 2 classes of 60 foot coaches one for commute and the second for intercity use, virtually all the 1927 general pool 72’s survived until Cal Train takeover in 1985.
SP also rostered 60 foot express/baggage cars, for the 1927 Daylight Limited, new 72 foot Harriman coaches were aquired with non standard large windows. SP went to AFC in 1928 to aquire 85 foot Harriman coaches, lounges, diners and baggage cars to replace the 72’s delivered just the prior year! They remained in service into the mid 60’s with the baggage fleet lasting the longest.
The MDC example best represents the intercity fleet, the most common design, Athearn once offered a 70 foot coach in the BB line which was based upon no particlular prototype, but did well as a stand in.
SP did maintain several former palace cars in MW service, they were used as roving offices for general supply trains, Shop forces always kept them in top condition.
Dave