Has anyone (or known anyone) had a layout with dual gauge trains (narrow gauge part, idler car, standard gauge part) for main line operations? And if so, are there any unique issues that come up?
I seen pictures of the old DRGW using this on Class One operations, but I have not seen any models do it.
One part about Modeling that I like is recreating scenes that no longer exist. I have seen lots of standard and narrow gauge operations, but not any dual gauge train operations, and i think it would be neat to have a model of it.
Quite a few model railroads have been built with tracks of two different gauges, then operated with appropriate rolling stock of the same scale. I am one person who has done so - but my 1067mm gauge mainline and my 762mm gauge feeders don’t have a millimeter of dual-gauge track. Neither did their prototypes.
Others have modeled dual-gauge facilities - many such have appeared in MR’s Trackside Photos. One John Armstrong track plan, the Hardscrabble and Golconda (written up as, To Hardscrabble, the Hard Way) rang the changes on dual-gauge specialwork. The only thing not included was a slip switch.
Back in the Dark Ages, one brass importer brought models of the Grande’s idler car to the U.S. market. I have no idea how many were imported or where they might be now.
In summary - it can be done, but the doing would be a scratchbuilder/kitbasher’s challenge, and not for the faint of heart or slender of pocketbook.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - narrow gauge and narrower gauge)
I am planning some dual gauge, but no dual operations. The early railroads had a nightmare of gauges in places, even broad gauge. Idler cars or some locomotives were equipped with mutli-couplers, lines like the D&RGW had dual gauge yards.
I think I have seen some trackside photos of either mags of some great multi gauge work, dunno if they tried the idlers.
This very topic has been recently discussed in the Free-mo Yahoo Group. It hasn’t been actually done yet, but dual gauge operations are envisioned on some modules with dual gauge track. The envisioned operation would originate at a dual gauge yard, and terminate at another dual gauge yard. That’s a fair amount of modules to be built.
D&RGW did in fact run mixed gauge trains from one point to another on one of their divisions in Southern Colorado. But the movement had to be planned, and I’m pretty sure it was one train a day or less.
The third rail cannot change sides without stopping and changing couplers around. This means no wyes and no draws (changes side of the 3rd rail) along the route. I haven’t thought it through, but changes to the location within the train or turning of the idler car or any other changes to the connection between the 2 gauges would probably have to be forbidden during the movement. Basically, the scheme only worked well for yard switching, and for a blocked train movement along the main.
Personally, I’ve never contemplated dual gauge operations on my HO/HOn3 layout. I may eventually add some dual gauge track, but it would be very limited in extent, and intended for mutually exclusive use of the shared track.
I like your response, but I will respectfully disagree with you on the practicality of the idler cars. There is a lot of records showing narrow gauge locomotives hauling and switching standard gauge equipment south of Alamosa, and even standard gauge locomotives moving narrow gauge trains in the Royal Gorge. I would be willing to bet that the dual gauge operations allowed the narrow gauge equipment to last as long as it did and EVEN allow much of it to be saved for excursion and historical services. Personally I feel those dual gauge idler cars were a great success and an under-rated part of railroading history.
For switching with dual gauge, I imagine that a simple yard with at least two run around tracks would work nicely. Also for a switching layout, I would also at least one free idler car per yard and at least one idler car for each train would make life much easier.
As for no one having a current model of dual gauge main line operations, I hope someone on this board has done it and will bring their experience forward.
What was real on the D&RG depends on the point in history you select. What you do in model ops is another matter.
Narrow gauge operations on the Pueblo to Salida line, through the Royal Gorge, ended in 1914, according to Mal Ferrel’s map. The Front Range line from Trinidad to Pueblo was converted to standard gauge in 1890, and by 1902 narrow gauge was gone from Pueblo to Denver. The Salida to Alamosa line and a few areas near Montrose were the only significant dual gauge trackage after 1915.
Where there is a loading/unloading platform or equipment (stock pen chutes as another example) on dual gauge track, the common rail pretty much has to be closest to the platform to get the correct horizontal clearances. If the orientation matches the 3 rail main line, all is good, and idler cars can be used to perfo
Sorry I’m a little late to this discussion. For a time I was considering dual gauge OPs on my (new) current layout. I built the RGM dual gauge idler car and did lay some dual gauge track. As the layout progressed, I found myself drawn to standard gauge and decided to make the narrow gauge a small, mainly cosmetic, part of the layout.
This decision was arrived at also in part due to the lack of West Coast narrow gauge equipment (that isn’t expensive, finicky brass) and the fact that there wasn’t much dual gauge OPs in CA, especially later in the 20th century… FWIW: The new Blackstone C-19 looks to bashable into a representation of some non-Colorado small steam…I have seen the beta test model run. It runs very well and the detail is great.
My layout is set in the CA foothills. I decided instead to focus on standard gauge short lines. I kept some of the dual gauge because it is cool and it does work in my Westside scene. The Westside Lumber Co.RR had some dual gauge trackage, though there was very little dual gauge activity other than switching…
I have used the idler car in mixed gauge switching and it does work pretty well. On the prototype car, the narrow gauge coupler could be moved from one side to the other and there was only one narrow gauge coupler per end. On the model this didn’t seem practical. I built mine with two narrow gauge couplers on each end (one per side).
I know lots of narrow gaugers and I see very little dual gauge trackage. It seems once the narrow gauge bug bites, that modelers tend to go all narrow gauge…
Good luck with your project. You might join the narrow gauge group on Yahoo to get more info on the subject.
