well i have a decision to make…
im just getting into the hobby, planning on a 4x8 layout, cant decide which gauge
i have two old HO gauge locos, only one runs well, several peices of rolling stock but they are rather toy-ish and really light, and their coupler boxes wont work with anything but a horn/hook, a bunch of old HO brass track, but much of it is bent and uneven, and i was trying to decide whether or not to continue with HO scale, or go with N…i know i can fit more with N, but it has less detail, and i also know that it is easier to get HO, and my HO locos are really shaky(figurativley)
would it be worth my while to swich to N or should i stick with HO, because i figure im going to be spending about the same amount of time and money on renovations and repairs on my exsisting HO stuff as i am on getting all new N stuff. any opinions/suggestions/advice is welcome and appreciated.
From the sounds of it I would recommend starting over from scratch reguardless of which scale you choose. That is unless you LIKE fixing up the old stuff.
I switched to N scale in 1969. I was young had very limited space, a 8x9 bedroom that had to include all my stuff not just trains.
I switched back to HO scale in 1982 because I actually wanted exact scale models of certain things (like a 3/4" hand rail).
After trying to keep both for several years, I totally abandon N-scale around 1990 due to the high price.
The quality of equipment is soooo good today compared to what it was then, it will be a hard decision. I think with a 4x8 it might come down to whether you prefer long trains and or big equipment (full size passenger 4-8-8-4 loco etc.) favoring N-scale, or more detailed and more variety of equipment favoring HO scale.
Then I guess there is also the sound issue. At the moment greately favors HO and larger scales. There is one N-scale loco with sound announced. I don’t know how it is really going to sound.
Texas Z has about the same opinion as I do. N offers more bang-for-space buck on a 4X8, but it gets harder to deal with as your hands and eyes age (may be irrelevant in your case?). At least, that is the consensus on this forum. So, some will move up to, or move back to, HO, while others go whole hog and get into the stuff that you can really get your eyes and mits on…O.
I found the N scale material too light and limited, and hard to see, even though I am in my early fifties…in a dimly lit basement. So, I opted for HO, and can’t say that I have regretted it for an instant.
To help you to make up your own mind, what is the likelihood that you will be in a position to enlarge your layout, or to move on to a considerably larger space…say within four years? Not much? Then why not give N-scale a try and learn to appreciate it so that you can have a good long run with it. If, on the other hand, you are reasonably likely to have access to a larger layout before long, then go light on the layout for now, get into HO (and sound/DCC), and dream and plan the Big One in the interim. When the time comes, you bust your butt and spend the dollars getting the dream layout built, and fondly place your familiar favourites on it when it is done.
I am not sure where Texas got his N-scale stuff; but as far as I can see today (15 years after he abandoned N) there is not a big difference in prices for N and HO.
A lot has changed in 15 years; the detail in N-scale today is actually quite exact. While it is true that N-scale rolling stock is light, you can add weights to it to give it some heft. The availability and variety of N-scale items is growing, and will probably rival HO soon enough.
Crandell’s advice regarding the probability of expansion in the near future is quite valid. But I suggest you seriously consider N-scale for either circumstance. If you do have an opportunity to expand in the future, your N-scale layout can grow just as easily as an HO layout. Also, DCC works in N-scale just as well (mind you, sound is not as easy to do due to limited size inside the chasis of the locomotives).
Which scale you choose is dependant primarily upon what you want to do in your 4x8ft space. Do you want long prototypical trains and curves with lots of stuff going on in a small space? From there you must decide which scale you can most easily work with, given your age and eyesight.
As for me… I am in N-scale. Why? Well… for a few reasons…
I can do more in the limited space I have (a room about 6’6" x 8’6").
I model today’s passenger trains. In N-scale, I can have prototypically long trains.
I can have nicer looking realistic curves. I’ll have minimum 15" radius curves; which, in HO, translates into 30" radius curves (impossible to get in your 4x8ft area).
I can have more grades and over-passes. In N-scale, you only need about 2" to 2.25" clearance (not the 4" HO requires), meaning shorter, more compact grades to rise up the necessary height.
Because of the smaller scale, you don’t need as much detail to get the same affect; making weathering and landscaping much more foregiving.
Personally, I started with HO, moved to O, then to S. S scale requires a little more room, but the bigger size is a delight to work with. It’s a little harder to find but there is plenty available. See this site http://www.trainweb.org/crocon/sscale.html for what’s available. I have found this size to be the perfect compromise between big enough to work on and small enough to have a layout in a reasonable space.
Enjoy
Paul
i find myself having this debate with myself constantly! Both scales have advatages…in terms of realism HO has finer detail of course, and so wins the realism debate if detail is your thing, BUT>>>>>>>>>>N scale wins the realism award when it comes to lifelike proportions…curves can be wider, more like the prototype, buildings can be more massive in comparision to the trains. Rest assured neither is thr "right"choice. I think HO still has an edge in operational relaibility, but the gap is not nearly what it used to be…some of the N scale diesels run like fine little watches…sigh , see ive done it again i still cant decide!
well i really appreciate all the info…im only 19 so im not worried about eyesight anytime soon…im leaning now towards N just because i like the idea of the smaller size enabiling me to fit more stuff in, and for some reason i was under the impression that DCC wasnt available for N scale, but i know now that it is, and im not worried about the sound aspect. i was worried that there would be a problem with availability in N scale but it seems that there is quite alot of things available. which brings me to my next question:
do you prefer flex or standard sectional track? i was looking at the flex today at the LHS, which they carry alot of, and they dont have much sectional. is flex track harder to lay? im curious, because i dont want to wait on sectional track, (but i will if its worth it) and flex seemed like you could get a more realistic track layout.
i was at another hobby store today, and they were, to my astonishment, trying to phase out their model train inventory. what got me is they were selling HO and N boxcars and (lifelike, athearn blue box, etc) for about 6 bucks a car…and 50% off building kits. i wish i had some extra cash on hand or i would have bought all the structures i ever needed.
sorry about the randomness of the topics but im excited [:D] [:D] [:D]
From the time of your posting, you seem to be a nightowl, Kombatkarl. [:D] As for me, I work nights at the reception of a nursing home so I have to find a way to kill time when its quiet. (Around here, we don’t like to call it the graveyard shift) [;)]
Anyways, about flextrack …
No, it is not very difficult to lay. How you lay it depends on what you’re using for subroadbed. There are nails which can only be used if you’re using plywood, homosote, or MDF as your subroadbed (the nails won’t stick well in foam). You can always use glue or caulking on either wood or foam subroadbed. Other people can offer better advice as to which type of glue or caulking is best.
You would be well advised to consider soldering joints, especially on curves. Those little rail joiners work ok; but they can work loose and sometimes don’t offer the best electrical connections. If your layout will be subject to large changes in temperature and/or humidity, you’ll want to leave some joints unsoldered to allow for seasonal expansion.
Flextrack allows you to get custom radius curves (you’re not limited to the standard radii of sectional track), and makes building easements simpler. It also can be cut or bent (be sure to get proper rail nippers at your LHS) so you can wedge in a piece to fit just about anywhere. No matter how well you plan your layout, once you start construction, things are bound to be a bit off. Sectional track would be hard pressed to accommadate even a 1/8" misalignment, leading to a great deal of frustration and colourful language you
You could try purchasing an HO train set and an N train set then see which size you like better. Then if you don’t want the other train set, just sell it on eBay or something like that. I personally like HO because everything is big enough to see and work on easily, but small enough to fit in a small room.
I support Tim’s post. Only thing to consider is what you will use for roadbed if you go with flextrack. The sectional comes ‘ballasted’, so there is some raised structure under the ties and rails. Most main lines are raised for drainage, or there are ditches on either side (or both).
I had to make the same decision and my thought process went along the lines of this:
HO is easier to see and detail, N is smaller and you can therefore get more track in the same space, they cost nearly the same (N is more expensive, but not by too much if you shop around), HO is the easiest scale to come buy when buying things, N is harder ( but not imposible if you shop around)
For me it came down to knowing that even though I would get more track in N, I intend on having enough space for a modest HO layout eventually and money for me is tight, so I would have a hard time justifying the premium for N (even if only a little premium).
If space is an issue consider building a double decker module based layout. I don’t know if anyone else has done this before, but it’s what I’m looking at doing right now.
No matter which scale of methodology you use to arrive at a decision of scale, just make sure you are having fun, otherwise it’s all just a chore, and never a hobby you can enjoy.
Have fun, and always induldge your inner child, even if just a bit.
chrismay brings up some good points. I went with N not because I could get more tracks into a given area, although you can. I went with N because you can have a little more surrounding scenery in a given area. This accentuates the vastness of the terrain and gives you more room for large structures to be prototypical in stature. It also gives you more room to use visual tricks such as forced perception, thereby increasing the “reality” that your trains are “real” trains running through “real” scenery.
Also, if you decide to do a double decked layout (as I have) then your helix can take up a bit less real estate and in your situation this could be the difference between it being a “do-able” thing or not.
One other thing to think about. If you go with N you only have to have 2 inches of clearence for one track to pass over another whereas you would need 4 inches to do the same in HO. If you use the same starting point for your grades in either scale, the N scale grade will not be a stiff as the HO grade.
Also since N scale is lighter in weight your benchwork can be lighter weight (both dimensionally and poundage wise) also. This saves money and your back if you ever have to move it. My layout is a box of 1x4’s with 1x3’s for cross beams on 12 inch centers. The sub-roadbed is 1/4 inch luan with 1/4 inch foam over top for roadbed. This means that from the bottom of the sub-roadbed to the bottom of the ties is only 1/2 inch! Now it is true that if you use this thin sub and roadbed it needs more support and so some of the lumber $ savings from buying smaller (dimensionally) lumber goes right back out the window to buy a little more of the smaller stuff, but you still have the advantage of the thin roadbed. This will be a big help when building a multi-decked layout and also when building a smaller helix with respectable grades.
Now I just want to say right here and now that I love HO for it’s size and heft. It’s availability is second to none and if I had