One of the things I have always been interested in are garden railroads, but in the smaller HO/OO scales as opposed to the larger ones. I posted a similar thread in the Garden Railroad section and I guess I am really after info.
I also posted a similar link on a UK model railway forum.
I like the idea of the massive mainlines that are available with HO/OO outside. I am aware the surroundings are out of scale but even so the results are still pretty impressive in my opinion. I am sure that as soon as I leave the army and complete my indoor layout I am going to try and take on mother nature.
Anyway here is a link that one of the blokes in the other forum posted. I think it is pretty cool. www.taw-vale.co.uk
Also check out this picture of a UP freight. I think it is awesome.
Interesting topic Wair oa ! I too spend lonely moments stroking my chin contemplating HO outdoors. The [imagined] look of a long train at high speed on a long lazy curve is entrancing. I recently purchased some mean looking Chinese prototype Bachmann diesels, only 'cos I 'd ridden behind them in darkest China and I sure haven’t/won’t have a Chinese layout, but I would love to see 'em flat out with a train in tow in the wide outdoors…dreaming on…
it’s a great idea, not only because I had it too long time ago. [;)] Back then (15 years ago) I figured a 400 ft single track all along the steep slope of my mothers garden in France with room for 18 ft stations on both ends. Power was a problem, now solved with DCC, but a bigger problem was how to build a line that will withstand rain (really torrential sometimes and when multiplied by 87 it’s biblical!) and for instance the accidental hit of a lawn mower. Near impossible to build something that can do all this AND look realistic.
By the way, those pictures: a real bummer to see that Intercity 125 squeeze itself through a trolly-sized curve without superelevation -gasp-
I too have been wondering about the track. Several people have recommended Peco. One guy said he used it for over 4 years before he changed guages. So it seems like ti can be done but the track requires additional maintainence which I makes sense.
I agree dothinker super elevation with have looked better on the curves. Still I think this guy must be pretty happy with what he has.
Well thanks for the responses fullas. I think there is a pretty good chance of me giving it a shot in the future.
I had originally planned to build my HOj (1:80 scale) layout outdoors, since I have the space and nothing growing there except the occasional weed. A ten-day stretch of 115 degree afternoon temperatures and unfiltered desert sun forced a quick retreat to the garage!
The garage isn’t much cooler, but at least the sun doesn’t shine in there.
I would guess that having some shade would be a good idea for having an outdoor layout, or at least having some sort of portable awning or tent cover over the sections you have to maintain.
I think the idea of an outdoor HO “sounds” good, but I don’t think HO and G railroaders think the same. It’s kind of like Country music vs Pop music. We tend to like a little of the “other” but mostly we listen to our own.
Most people think of an outdoor layout to eliminate the problem of no room inside. We all dream of long mainline runs, but the problem I see would be the layout height. Indoor HO is generally set up to be close to eye level for a variety of reasons, mainly comfort in working on and operating the layout.
G gaugers (I belong to a large club) mostly just want to run trains, not operate yards. Therefore, not as much bending down. Imagine a 3-4 hour operating session in HO where everyone is on their knees the whole time. HO gaugers tend to want to operate yards and making up and tearing down trains, with a little mainline running in between.
The available equipment is the least of the problems of running smaller gauges outdoors.
Here is another cool pic from the site. The author writes that he used his British engines could not pull the train. It is 100 cars long. Note too that this layout is built above the ground.
Biggest problem is the plastics used in HO both track and equipment are not ultraviolet light resistant and will break down fairly rapidly. Large scale stuff does not have this problem. Different plastics!
that some cool shots in the yard
its a good idea and brass track hold up best in the weather
hey most days are fine and with that kind of room its awsome
This topic comes up from time to time. The right answer is that you can do HO outside, if that is what you want to do. The best answer is no, there are far too many technical difficulties to overcome, UV light destroying track and rolling stock, dust, dirt, animals, non-sealed drives in locos, wind blowing rolling stock off the track, leaves, animal droppings, tree droppings, weather extremes etc etc etc. The frustration factor is overwhelming- every time the wind blows you can kiss your 6 oz boxcar good-bye, and hope it survives rolling across the yard. G scale equipment is designed with all these factors in mind, which is why G rolling stock is short on detail (it gets broken) but big on durability. You can run G locos in the rain- try that with HO. Track expansion due to temperature extremes cannot be ignored and will buckle HO track. The physics of material strength and weight/power factors are radicaly different between HO and G, larger is better in the real world of the outside.
Theoreticaly you could run 300 car trains in outdoor HO, but my money is on you not being able to complete a run without derailment. You could have 3 scale miles between towns, but you would spend hours of maintenance time on the track just to get it ready for a run. G scale track power is on average around 10 amps or greater, this no only powers the locos, but provides the juice to get a train across a dirty track section. Standard HO power packs are not up to this challenge unless you are content to clean track every day and only run one or two locos in a single power block. HO DCC is nearly ineffective in outdoor use, too much interference and inconsistant signals (like when a leaf falls across the rails)
Now with all that said, you can do HO outdoors. It has been done and done well, but I do not reccomend it if there is any way possible to avoid doing so. Outdoor HO is certainly a task for experts only.
Tangerine-Jack, Thanks for the “back to reality” tutorial on outside HO considerations. While it can be done, it does sound like a big hurdle to overcome all the outside forces.
Good point. I don’t have freeze/thaw where I am, but that brings up a good topic for discussion. In an indoor layout, we can build with the exact same materials and get the same results. Outdoors, my “benchwork” is as different from yours as night is from day. Some examples are to put track directly on the ground, trench and ballast, on ground with aggregate, elevated on decking, elevated on dirt and rocks, viadicted (as mine is), or as many other ideas as you can think of, all of them will work to some degree, all have pros and cons. HO outdoor is usualy on some type of cast concrete channel set into the ground or on modified decking, it does not work very well with any other method. You MUST consider your geographical area, soil composition (in both dry and wet seasons), rate of plant growth and temperature extremes before even begining to think about how to build a foundation for your railroad. It’s not without reason it’s called “Garden” railroading.
What works for me in my local area in no way means that it will work in yours- it might or it might not, but perhaps you will get a general idea of what you want to do from what I have done and modify it to meet your needs. There are no hard and fast rules of any kind in the outdoor world of model railroading, regardless of which scale you use.
But again, if that is what you want to do, if you desire to model HO outdoors, then go 4 it! Just be aware it’s not as easy to do as G scale (or larger).
Even before I got to T J’s info, I was thinking about animals. We have deer, squirrels and moles. Lots of moles. Our own cats might be a little less careful on the outside as they chase squirrels, dig for moles and stand in awe of the deer.
I’m impressed with how well theycarefully walk around the trains in the house. They usually ignore them. But outside may be a different story.
Thanks wairoa for an interesting thought and TJ for a good critique of the problems. Thanks to all you others for your input too.