Hello I am looking to buy some passenger cars, can someone explain me what is the difference between regular and heavy weight passenger cars. I am modeling the transition era, a Hudson J1e will be pulling these cars.
Thank you.
It’s all about the building material. Heavy weight, simply means a steel-built train car. somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 tons. The regular, streamliner, or lightweights, were built out of aluminum, closer to 60-80 tons, depending on the car type and length.
Now, some heavyweights were disguised to match the new streamliner cars, but typically, a heavyweight car had a clerastory on it, for light and air ventilation, and rode on 3 axle trucks. The regular cars were air-condidtioned, and didn’t need to be ventilated (except whn the air-conditioner fails, then it’s a tin can on wheels)and rode on 2 axles. The thrid set wasn’t needed because the car was lighter. Also, heavweights, as far as I know at least, could have their windows opened. the lightweights could not.
The heavyweight were taller than the regular (or streamlined) cars. I believe the regulars (without domes) were about 3 feet shorter.
I don’t think anyone uses the term “regular” passenger cars, unless it’s some model company. “Regular” could mean just about anything. There have been several “eras” of passenger cars.
First came wood cars, which culminated with 80’ wood Pullman cars, with enclosed vestibules in the 1890’s-1900’s.
Early in the 20th century, all-steel “heavyweight” cars came along, usually with a clerestory roof (though sometimes with a rounded “monitor” roof). As the name implies, these cars were much heavier than the previous all-wood cars, and required larger engines to pull them…like a Hudson.
Starting in the 1930’s, lightweight all-metal “streamlined” cars came along, often made of stainless steel with either smooth side or “fluted” sides. These were often (though certainly not always) pulled by diesels, which were just beginning to come into their own.
Today’s Amtrak “Superliners” date back to 1979 in their earliest version, though they’re similar to cars built for the Santa Fe’s “El Capitan” back in the mid-fifties. They’re basically extended lightweight cars that have an upper and a lower level.
A NYC Hudson would have first pulled the top heavyweight trains of the 20’s-30’s like the Twentieth Century. The Century at that time was an “all-Pullman” train; the only car that wasn’t a Pullman was the New York Central diner in the middle of the train. Streamlined Hudsons took over the new smoothsided streamlined Century in 1938, and a different type of streamlined Hudsons were used on the fluted-side Empire State Express starting in 1941.
Lot of people have problems with passenger cars because of there length. Most will need 24 inch or better radius turns.You might look at Con-Cor 70 foot cars with a some work they track well. I gave away all my longer cars because they derailed.
Cuda Ken
Hudson’s were flatland, passenger locomotives. High in horsepower, but relatively low in tractive effort. … The three major passenger car periods could be classified as wooden, heavyweight (steel), and lightweight (aluminum). Hudson-type locomotives (4-6-4) were developed during the “heavyweight” period. … In my opinion, a Mountain (4-8-2), for the same number of axles, was a more versatile, dual-purpose locomotive.
Still, I can’t argue against the opinion the Santa Fe 3460 class Hudson’s were most handsome, nor that their 7-foot-diamater drivers and 300 pound steam pressure made them greyhounds.
Mark
This would apply to many modern-day freight cars, such as car-carriers.
Mark
Hi!
One guideline is that TYPICALLY, heavyweight passenger cars have 6 axles, and lightweight have 4 axles. Obviously, that is due to the heavy construction (steel) in the heavyweights, whereas often the lightweights had a lot of aluminum and thinner (I believe) stainless steel sheathing.
Personally, your Hudson would look terrific pulling a string of heavyweights. I have a string of ATSF heavyweights that really look good behind a 4-8-4. My lightweights usually are pulled by E or F unit diesels. THAT IS NOT SAYING that steamers didn’t pull lightweights or diesels didn’t pull heavyweights, for they surely did. But, IMHO, it looks better the other way around.
ENJOY,
Mobilman44
I believe the above comments that “lightweight” cars are built of aluminum rather than steel are incorrect. Most were built of steel and/or stainless steel. Very few were aluminum.
I do not know why the lightweights were lighter, but I suspect a lot of it was that they didn’t have that huge fishbelly underframe that the heavyweights had.
Ed
I believe heavyweights had concrete floors which definitely added weight.
And speaking of weight. I thumbed through my SP&S diagram book. Their heavyweight cars ranged from about 70 tons for full length baggage, 75 tons for coaches, to 90 tons for lounge-sleepers and 95 tons for a diner. With one exception, their lightweight cars were 60 tons for a coach, 65-70 tons for sleepers, and 75 tons for a diner and dome car. The exception was GN 999, which operated over the SP&S for awhile. It was one of the high tech pendulum cars built in 1942 and weighed about 53 tons.
I have heard that concrete was poured into the floors of SOME heavyweights, but I have no idea how widespread that was.
Ed
PS: I just did some poking around on the PCL. It appears (to me) that heavyweights frequently had a sort of soundproofing material in their floors–apparently a mix of horsehair and cement/concrete. Lightweights apparently occasionally had this too, or some more modern version of the material. The “lightness” appears to have come from a more scientific design of the carbody which cut some weight. Also, the trucks were lighter, too; I believe.
Mark one of the most common questions I see is what radius do you need to keep passenger car’s coupled. Maybe I am wrong?
Cuda Ken
Your right, I caught what I did about a half-hour ago and haven’t gotten to fixing it yet. The walls on the Lightweight cars at ITM (7? footers) are I am moderately sure thinner than the walls of either the Cross Keys Tavern (L&N diner, HW) and NKP 1 (HW Obs.), since modern practice didn’t neccesitate the bulk for strutcure, yes no? and I know they are roughly 60 ton cars, 20 ton a truck and twenty for the body.
By “regular”, I am assuming you’re referring to “lightweight” streamlined cars.
Given that you’re going to model the transition era, you can use either type in a train or even a mix of the two types. MR occasionally runs short articles on “pike size” passenger trains (5 cars or less) and there was one on an NYC train in Michigan that had 4 heavyweights trailed by a lightweight sleeper. Can’t remember the issue.
It’s not a hard and fast rule unless you’re modeling a specific train with a specific consist. Railroads weren’t quite so anal about their secondary trains. The “Super Chief” might have had a unified consist, but the “Navajo” or “Grand Canyon”, not so much. The SP/UP “City of San Francisco” was streamlined from the get-go, while the “Overland” had a mix of heavyweights and streamliners for a number of years.
It isn’t really a case of diesel vs. steam either. In the early 1950’s, I rode the “San Joaquin Daylight” (streamlined except for head end cars) from Mojave to LA. Returning, I rode the “Owl”, a completely heavyweight train at the time. Both were diesel powered, although if I had ridden either train north of Bakersfield, there probably would have been a GS-4 up front.
Andre
The older steel passenger cars were built more like a flatcar, with a structure added to the top. I think ATSF cut some down to use in work trains after passenger use.
Streamlined lightweight cars had more of a unibody design, where the sides and roof were also part of the structure of the car. This reduced the framing material, which reduced overall weight, allowing 4-wheel trucks to carry the load.
No, you’re not wrong. But people often overlook very long modern freight cars in this equation.
Thank you so much for all these valuable informations [tup]
After reading all of your comments and infos, I decided to go for the “Heavyweight” passenger cars, but one question comes up to mind: I know that there are different models and types of cars but what is the actual HO average lenght of these cars?
Thank you.
Mark, a good point. Even with min. 30" R. on my layout, 86’ auto racks overhang quite a bit and I had to be careful of S-curves on diverging routes on #6 yard TO’s. G.
I have four different versions of passenger cars, not counting the “Old Timer” cars, all in HO scale on the BRVRR.
The Athearn heavyweights with clerestory roof and 6-wheel trucks are 10 1/4-inches fro coupler face to coupler face. Thats about 74-feet in HO scale.
The Athearn light weight, fluted side cars with 4-wheeled trucks are 10-1/4 inches from coupler face to coupler face. Again, about 74-feet in HO scale.
I have some Walther’s heavyweight coaches, with clerestory roofs, and four-wheeled trucks that are 8-5/8 inches long. About 63-feet in HO scale. Note: I have Walter’s heavyweight baggage cars and RPOs the same size with 6-wheeled trucks.
I have Walther’s smooth side and fluted side coaches with 4-wheeled trucks that are 11-5/8" long, coupler face to coupler face. About 85 feet in HO scale.
All of these cars run on my BRVRR without trouble. The outer main has a radius of 22-1/2 inches and the inner main 20-1/2 inches.
I run all of the cars behind a BLI Hudson, NYC Niagara, ALCO PAs and E8/E7 locos. Admittedly the longer cars look a little funny on the 22-1/2 inch curves, but its nothing I can’t live with.
Frankly, the Athearn cars, both heavy weight and streamlined/lightweight look better on the layout and get the most running time. They are also much cheaper to buy at around $10 each. I light them, weight them and block the windows with copy paper to diffuse the light. They look great in the dark.
There is a “how to” on how I modified them on my website. Just click on the “How’d You Do That” page once on site and scroll down to the picture of the lightweight observation car.
Any of the cars above should suit your purpose and there are many other choices out there as well. I just have an aversion to paying $60 to $70 for model railroad cars.
Prototype passenger cars were mostly 80 feet, which is difficult to get around 18 inch curves on HO. Athearn made a “selectively compressed” (short) heavyweight that looks pretty good and is 60ish feet long and will negotiate an 18 inch curve. Rivarossi and IHC made a number of 80 foot heavy weights. The Athearn cars are very attractive if your minumum radius is anything less than 24 inches.