Discovery attributed to another Italian, working for the Spanish Monarchy - even though there were intelligent humans in the Western Hemisphere (west of the Atlantic Ocean) for thousands of years before that - including, most likely, some descendants of Danes who had arrived centuries earlier via the Northern route.
What’s REALLY interesting is that these two continents were given Signor Vespucci’s FIRST name!
For those interested, the Japanese word Gaijin and the Mandarin Chinese Wairin are written with the same two Kanji Characters, translatable as, “Elsewhere Person.”
Phil: [2c] A very interesting subject! I guess that I have a different perspective and it is probably ‘politically incorrect’ so bear with me. In my 50+ years of HO, I have had a number of different layouts. And, all have had people. In the early days, they were metal and later, plastic.
You know, I never gave much thought to ethnic representation. The layouts were, to me, after all was said and done, just backdrops for my trains which were the main focus of my attention. Perhaps, aside from production costs, this idea might have a bearing on some manufactuers’ decision not to diversify their products.
Getting back to your original topic…Try Testors paints (mix and match, let dry & re-apply). All the best.
I was an N scaler in the late '60s and through the '70s, and then had other priorities for 20 years. When I re-entered the hobby in in 1999, I noticed a lot of changes, mostly for the better (e.g., DCC, code 70 and 83 flex track, sculpt a mold, gound foam, and really good switch machines, just to name a few). I also noticed HO scale signs of the times had changed over the past 20+ years - we can buy lots of up-to-date stuff. Yet, when I stood before the Floquil paint display and saw the color “flesh” (peach color) it occurred to me that it is way out of date. Most of the rest of model railroading is pretty current: There are kit and RTR modern locomotives, current automobiles, plastic figures using lap-top computers, wind turbines. So, how did we miss population diversity? Surely folks besides me have noticed the wonderful variety that is the current US population.
I read and hear statistics that indicate that peach colored “flesh” is as out of date as an Edsel, and I wonder why there is so little interest in updating our selection of model humans. Here’s one example: Ogden, Utah - the city that was once a major railroad hub of the west - no longer has a majority ethnicity (less than half the folks in Ogden are white).
One thing that kind of bugs me about it is that the hobby store with the Floquil display is in Ogden. When a non-white modeler sees that rack of paint, do they think that they are not invited to participate? Maybe they take it in stride and disregard it, but maybe it shows a little out-of-dateness in our hobby and they wonder if they are welcome. I’m OK with trying to mix my own, although it’s tough to come up with convincing shades. I really started this thread in hopes that some of the paint/figure manufacturers would see a situation that needs some fixing.
By the way, another thing we see little of in the figure
I kind of mixed ’ n ’ matched. At first I used exclusivly Tamiya’s paints, their flesh for everybody left as flesh for caucasian , their redbrown over the flesh made a good native american colour and their earth colour over the original flesh tone made a passably african -american. Now the pigment is very heavy with Tamiya and tended to if used in layers cover alot of detail espeacially on fine detailed figures like the undec Preisers ( which if you have the steady hand a patients the cheapest way to get crowds ) so lately I’ve been using the acrylic model; master military series from testors, they have several different flesh base colours that will match just about anything you want.
Paint manufacturers have, to some extent, standardized colors. I find that I can get a container of “gray” acrylic paint from different companies, and it looks exactly the same as any other “gray.” That’s very helpful when doing things like touch-up painting of roads, etc., where you want to match a color, but ran out of the original jar of paint.
I suspect that “flesh” is like “gray.” It’s not meant as a social comment, merely as a specific spectral combination. Actually, I don’t think it matches up very well with Caucasian skin tones, either. It kind of looks like the back of Darth Vader’s head inside that helmet, sort of sickly and pale, untouched by sunlight or air.
So, what color band-aid do you use when you cut yourself with a hobby knife? I kind of liked it when my daughter was a little girl, and the band-aids were red and blue and yellow, with stars on them. Those “flesh-toned” things never matched, anyway, so why try to hide it?
I’m a recent arrival in model railroading, but have been involved with military miatures and dioramas for quite a few years. Painting figures of ancient Egyptians, who have mostly exposed skin but hardly in the color called “Flesh”, it is obvious that “Flesh” is the name of a color and not a painting recommendation. Not all roofs are “Roof Brown” (are any?), not all ties are “Tie Brown” (I have several that are blue and green!), and hardly any dirt is that color labeled “Earth”. IIRC, Humbrol once tried to label their paints by number only - you can imagine the confusion THAT could cause. You mix and you match, and, of course, it takes several different colors to capture the shades and highlights of even a “white” face.
Yes, it is good that we have begun noticing such things. As a disabled person, I have had just a small taste of how invisible anyone who is not “just like the rest of us” can be. But painting 15% of the figures on our layouts “African-American Brown” does not make us racially sensitive. Why, when people of all colors figure so prominently into the history of railroading, is model railroading still primarily a hobby for “white guys”?
BTW: Do the Japanese MRR manufacturers sell figures painted in more appropriate skin tones for the legions of modelers in Japan? I can’t imagine an Nj gauge city scene populated with pasty-faced gaijin!
this is by far one of the most interesting threads i have seen in this forum. This is my first post although i joined over a year ago. I am an Africacan American modeler. While i often get weird looks at train shows and hobby shops, i can say overall, i have not met any real prejudice within the hobby (i am also 36 years old). I did get followed around a big name hobby shop once even after i made it clear that i am a modeler and i know what im talking about and im not some misguided teenager looking to shoplift. i ultimately decided not to spend my money with them. Truth be told, i am not sensitive about race - because after all there is only one race, the human race. Everything else is just perception. As far as diversity in HO figures, i have seen things that were offensive, such as tons of white figures, but then a set of chain gang members that were all black. or passenger sets where all the passengers were white and the porters were black (which depending on the era that actually might be accurate). I am not offended by it…although it may be offensive or insensitive. I love trains, always have and i love modeling and will probably be doing it for the rest of my life. that being said im curious to know if there are any other black modelers out there (i also do not necessarily agree with the term ‘african american’, but thats another discussion all together - and this isnt the place for it). Im in this for the love of trains and modeling, so i dont feel a need know other black modelers, I am just curious.
There was only one nationally-known modeler (he’s more known for his videos) that even attemped to model the era you cite above and he got creamed for it. I’m talking about Allen Keller. He’d had a couple of pictures of his layout in MR which had the old rebel flag (which is considered racist now) flying in front of a courthouse IIRC. The mail condemning that was plentiful. He said in his defense that he was just trying to accurately model the South as it was in his particular time period. So, as a warning, if you do a layout with ethnic other than white people on it, and you post pics of it, be prepared for the negative onslaught, unfortunately.
I have NEVER seen a “whites only” water fountain, restaurant, or anything else except in museums and publications about the south. I had a black teacher in elementary school, and black friends in school.
While there have always been, and will always be, racists in every community, it was never institutionalized government policy nationwide during my lifetime except in several southern states.
Model figures should absolutely reflect the diversity of population which has always been one of America’s strengths.
Displaying the Confederate flag on a layout may upset some people, as it is an uncomfortable reminder of a time when blacks were mistreated, but simply having black figures on the layout would be no reason for a “negative onslaught.”
I will probably take a beating for this but it needs to be said. Of the last ten years or so “Diversity” has been the buzz word .Any one who is not “diverse” is a hate mongrel.Labeled by the opposing views. Ironic isnt it one side not being tolerant of the non diversity of the other side. I can tell you I am pretty sick of Diversity. Diversity means some one has to give up something so that the other side can have OR BE ELEVATED above others with “special rights” . In other words the whole issue of diversity is an attempt by one opposing view to put the other gender,race,religion or what ever down so they can elevate themselves. I have seen all kinds of discrimation come in every form you can imagine. Some examples,fat people vs skinny people , Mexicans vs Salvadorians , "African Americans hating Asians , Arabs vs Jews , Rich vs. Poor , those who have the latest “toys” vs those who do not. I could go on and on and on…The point here is that we are all human and wether we want to admit it or not we all have issues with some one for some reason or another that we justify that it is okay to treat another people group like they are less than deserving. I am white. I have been called a “cracker” , “whitey” , “honkey” , “gordo”, “right wing fanatic” educated vs less educated GI (Right? Kerry/Edwards) , . Just because I do not hold your view does that make me less? That is what the current wave of Diversity is really saying. I am SOOOOOOOOO weary of being blamed by blacks that they are where they are because I am white . What did I do to them ? My ancestor (fathers side ) did not even fight in the civil war for either side and did not own slaves. Stop blaming others,take responsibility for your life , treat others as you would be treated,let compassion and kindness towards others be your guide. Forgive those who do you wrong and MOVE ON.
Well Preiser does make a set called something like “foreign visitors” that has black, asian, and middle eastern people in it; there are a few other blacks in other sets too. They also make some asian figures, including IIRC a set of Japanese RR workers. Woodland Scenics has several sets out with black people in different walks of life - driving cars, logging, railroaders etc.
I think part of it is the fact that the big figure manufacturers, Preiser and others (Merten) that are commonly used on model railroads worldwide are German or Austrian, so are making figures based on their country’s population.
Plus…this might be getting into another touchy subject…how many US model railroaders are non-whites?? I suspect the pct. of white modellers is higher than the pct. of white people in the US population. I can only recall seeing a couple of black modellers in MR over the years, right now I can’t think of any Asian modellers.
Now, I don’t mean white modellers would only want white figures on their layout, or anything like that, but unless they’re modelling an area where there were a large black population (like the South, or a big city like New York, Chicago, Detroit etc.) it might just not occur to a white model railroader that ‘hey, I need to get some black (or asian) figures on the layout’.
Don’t know how many Americans of Japanese descent are currently model railroaders (my son isn’t, even though I’ve tried!) but at least one past president of the NMRA was.
As for how many Japanese who live in Japan are model railroaders - probably more than Americans of ANY descent. Japanese culture is VERY railroad oriented.
For the record, my own ancestors (two and three generations back) came from Poland, Ireland and Bavaria. I was born in ‘New Yawk.’ Doesn’t that make me a ‘native’ American?
I believe that you’re right. There is no malice on the part of the manufacturers, in my opinion. Even so, they could do better. I find it difficult to mix convincing skin colors - all of mine look like the person is either dead or seriously ill. I’d love it of the manufacturers would come up with a spectrum of skin tone paints and just name them Skin Tone #1, #2, #3, etc. I’ll look through the glass bottle to choose the one that I feel works best for my situation.
I’m not really offended by the fact that the color labeled “Flesh” is peach colored, but it bugs me. There may be a message that it is sending, even though most of us don’t want it sent. I really thought that by the time 2008 rolled around that such paint color/label combinations would have long since faded into history.
Try to imagine this scene: We are looking in on a paint manufacturer’s production line and there is someone who has skin other than white, and he/she is pouring peach-colored paint into bottles marked “Flesh.” The picture that creates in my mind makes me sad. If for no one other than that production worker, the paint manufacturers should be more sensitive.
BTW, I recently purchased a package of truck drivers - unpainted. There isn’t a woman in that whole package of drivers.
Hey, you paint and figure manufacturers! Wake up! The world is changing and you’re not keeping up.
Actually, the manufacturers have it pretty right. Fresh human flesh is pretty much peach colored, once you wash the hemoglobin red off it. So is pork. Is that why cannibal barbecue was referred to as ‘long pig?’
OTOH, unless you’re modeling the coroner’s workshop, that’s a color that isn’t seen very often.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - without dissected model corpses)
Well, of the 50 or so model railroaders I know by name, four (one deceased) are black. Can’t think of any other “ethnic” modelers. Only three women as well, and they’re more toy train collectors as opposed to active modelers.
I don’t think there would be a negative reaction to more diverse figures, but I guess it would depend on what those figures were doing. If they’re all taggers and porters, that company had best put on it’s asbestos underwear.