Is there any hope that sometime in the near future, speaker technology will advance enough to allow the deeper sounds proto locomotives make? It must be an almost impossible thing to do, given the size of the average HO scale speaker, but I was wondering if a speaker manufacturer like Bose, or another leader in the field, could make this happen if only to a slight degree. What I know about the field would fit on the head of Z scale needle, and I think it has to do with the amount of air the speaker can push, but I’m not sure.
Someone can correct me if I am wrong (and I usually am according to my wife) but the bass you are after is a derivative of the magnet size and weight. Speakers that produce good bass are heavy while smaller and lighter speakers are more for the high frequency ranges.
usually thats wattage related if I’m correct I will be amazed.
As for bass it depends on the out put of that paticular decoder. If the decoder / sound modual doesnt have bass equalized into it the lower rumble wont be heard. The only differences with speakers which comes due to the size is style of. sound like I was taught by a Car audio installer. The loser / Small the cone is the further a part the bass signal has to be. The larger the speaker the bass signall can be anywhere at anytime / closer together. So the output amp on the decoders / sound modual is the reason you dont here bass rumble.
I have gottem some nice bass out of ear buds and same with headphones so I know it isnt the size of the speaker that makes a difference with sound in model railroading.
Not unless the laws of physics can be changed. LOL
The size of the speaker’s diaphram determines in part of what the lower frequencies it can reproduce, and be able to move enough air for one to hear or feel.
There is only so much that Bose can do- as the laws mentioned above rule.
The tiny speakers that fit in our rolling stock can’t move enough air to reproduce bass frequencies. So the decoder manufacturers don’t bother making their decoders produce the low bass frequencies. Saves on storage, equalization curves, and filter networks in the decoder (which save space, power, and components) when you don’t have to produce the low bass freqs. The decoder issue is far easier to fix than the physics of speakers. If enough folks go to subwoofers mounted under the layout, then there will be demand for the decoders to provide the correct outputs for the installation.
That would be because generally a higher wattage speaker is required to move more air. Moving lots of air at the low frequency is the key. Impossible with 1" speakers. That is why Bose has to have that “third” big box speaker to make their systems sound ok. And I say “ok” without prejudice because Bose is one of the systems I happen to own. I consider them the top of middle-of-the-road when it comes to speakers. To my ears they lack in mid-range separation and definition. And there is another big issue with speakers - peoples ears and how they have trained them varies greatly between individuals. My father in law and spouse are tone deaf, they can’t hear the difference between a portable radio and my 1972 Marantz. I knew another person who couldn’t even tell the difference between mono and stereo, let alone fine details of sound, until I taught them how to listen.
This is incorrect unless you’re going to plug the train into your ear. The reason ear buds can produce better bass sounds is because they don’t have to propogate the sound through a large open environment. They can pump it directly into a very small closed environment: the ear cannal. One cannot compare ear buds and headphones with speakers, it is an entirely different situation.
I did not understand the rest of the post about “style of . sound” and “loser / Smaller” stuff.
fwright has it right. The final sound you here is a function of both the physical sizes of the speakers and the audio source. If the source (the decoder) doesn’t produce the lower frequencies, then there’s nothing for the speakers to reproduce.
Bose is able to put out low frequencies through small speakers because they boost the low end electronically or the do it through the design of the speaker cabinet or both. But they start with a full range signal to begin with, decoders don’t.
Low bass reproduction is also a function of power. The deeper and louder the bass the more power (larger cone size and larger magnets) are required to move the speaker cone back and forth. Decoders are limited by what you can fit on the circuit board and how much heat you can dissapate without melting the plastic loco shells.
Earbuds can give good bass in spite of their size, first, because the signal has low bass and secondly, they sit in your ear canal and are close to your eardrum (an enclosed space). As you know when you pull out an ear-bud, the bass drops off real fast, (there’s not enough power and the diaphram can’t move enough air because of it’s size.
I’m sure with the popularity of sound equipped locos, the developers will improve the sound over time as they develop more powerfull amplification in smaller packages. Multiple speakers (as some manufacturers are already including) will extend the range of reproducable sound, but again are still limited by the range and power of the decoders. Like I said, I think this will improve with time.
The best solution would be to have large speakers under the layout, but this presents a whole other set of issues: how to transmit and sync up the sound from the decoder to both the onboard speaker and the stationary speaker(s) under the layout? If only very low frequencies are being sent to a subwoofer, then placement is non-critical as the low bass is non directional. A solution here might be to simultaneously transmit a digital audio
Speakers are ‘Transducers’. They were invented about 1915 and were the cheapest way to convert electrical energy into sound waves. Getting Bass is EXPEN$IVE. Getting anything lower than A=440 out of a 3/4" speaker in a 9" toy is an impossibility. Here’s how the pros do it:
Soundtraxx has been working on a 5 channel ‘Surroundtrax’ sylstem that would use commercially available ‘Home Theater’ sound systems. Since these start at $500 I wonder how many of our ‘realism’ modelers are actual candidates?
If you’re using the proper speaker enclosures that are recommended, the sound is surprisingly good. So many people either leave the enclosures off, or install them incorrectly, they will never get good sound.
I realize you can’t use it as an onboard installation, but has anyone ever installed a full range 8 or 10 inch speaker to your sound decoder … you’d be VERY impressed with the sound range the decoder is capable of reproducing !!!
Yes. I have an undre table sound system I made myself from a Soundtraxx DSD decoder. It actually drives a car stereo speaker bos with two 8" woofers, two 4" midranges and two horn tweeters. It sounds better than I ever thought it would. It makes the floor vibrate a little.
I would ask the opposite, who hasn’t tried this? How else would one know the full capabilities of a sound processor if it was not hooked to a full range speaker array.
Actually, No I wouldn’t. It maybe impressive compared to a 1" speaker.
To do a valid comparison, get a high-fidelity recording of real trains (Something like “First Generation Diesels” by Daylight Sales). Play that through a full range stereo system (even a cheap one) with the full range speaker (which a single 10 inch is not). Then use that same speaker on the sound unit. That is a much better way to measure a units “goodness”. I will be impressed when this test is performed and I can’t tell the difference.