I have two of the Spectrum 2-10-2’s in CN livery and keep them paired for hauling ore on my 2.5% grades.
The slow speed resonse on these two engines is superb. I would like to add yet another engine to this train. Where would it most likely be added. As a pusher or as another helper?
These engines are among the bet runnining engines I have encountered. Traction is a bit on the light side but running them in multiples has corrected that deficience.
I can’t say I’ve heard of many triple heads… If it were my railroad I would put it right in front of the caboose, but what was the CN prototypical practice?
Don–
Unless you like triple-headers, you might want to consider using the third 2-10-2 as either a mid-train helper or a pusher just in front of the caboose.
I don’t know how Canadian steam was utilized over grades, but I know that in a lot of cases here in the US over heavy grades, especially here in the West, helpers were usually spaced fairly evenly throughout the train to help keep even slack in the couplers. What you might consider, since your 2-10-2’s a a little ‘light’ in tractive power, would be to space the third 2-10-2 midway in the train where it is hauling its own weight in the cars behind it, and not so close to the other locos that it might threaten to ‘stringle’ the cars in front of it.
In DC, helpers can be a problem unless you really plan ahead as far as the tractive power of each locomotive. In DCC, I understand, this is far less of a problem because of individual speed control for each loco. So if you’re operating DCC, you could actually use one loco in front, another mid-train and another just ahead of the caboose.
Tom
’
The pics I have of a third engne - CPR and CN only show the\d engine placed to the rear of the train. Just ahead of the caboose as you had mentioned.
There were a few pics showing a third engine at the front end but I do not know what was prototypical practice.
Look at some pics of CPR’s Big Hill. It was common to use as many as 5 locomotives per train to get it up the 4% grade. Sometimes the helpers were mid train, not just on the rear.
David B
The Big Hill motive power for the time period was significantly smaller than the helper engines employed after the 4% grade had been replaced. Would the use of the much larger engines make a difference in their placement in comparison to the much smaller 4-4-0 and 4-6-0’s in use at that time?
Information from Wikipedia
Field was created solely to accommodate the CPR’s need for additional locomotives to be added to trains about to tackle the Big Hill. Here a stone roundhouse with turntable was built at what was first known simply as Third Siding. In December 1884 the CPR renamed it Field after C.W. Field, a Chicago businessman who, the company hoped, might invest in the region after he had visited on a special train they had provided for him.
At that time, standard steam locomotives were 4-4-0s, capable enough for the prairies and elsewhere, but of little use on the Big Hill. Baldwin Locomotive Works was called upon to build two 2-8-0s for use as Field Hill pusher engines in 1884. At the time they were the most powerful locomotives built. Two more followed in June 1886. The CPR began building its own 2-8-0s in August 1887, and over the years hundreds more were built or bought.
The Big Hill “temporary” line was to remain the main line for twenty-five years, until the famous Spiral Tunnels were opened on
Don–
During the steam era out here on the SP Siskiyou Line, it wasn’t uncommon to see a freight train climbing Siskiyou Summit with two 2-10-2’s on the head end, a couple in the middle, and maybe one or two as helpers right in front of the caboose. Siskiyou Summit has a grade that is over 3% in spots and the famous SP cab-forward articulated locomotives were forbidden after one blew up on the severe grade. So SP made do with their powerful classes of 2-10-2, often using up to six locomotives to lift the train practically 2,000 feet from the base of the summit to the summit itself.
It was quite a show at 10mph.
Tom [:)]
In the days of steam, the Denver & Rio Grande used as many as four engines to get trains over the mountains. Two in front, a helper about 2/3 of the way back, and a pusher on the rear. Some of these were even articulated locomotives.
Tom, yes that would have been a sight to savour.
The majority of the steam pics I have access to are CPR in origin and are from the Calgary to Revelstoke areas. The main engines being the Selkirks with Decopods and Santa Fe’s the main helpers. It was not unusual to see Mikes used as well.
Southern Railway used 2-10-2’s as well as 2-8-8-2’s on Saluda Grade (4.7%, a short stretch at top of 5%+). Photos show double heading the 2-10-2’s with a pusher behind the caboose was actually a fairly common practice. The reason for running behind the caboose was so they could cut loose on the fly, so to speak, as well as not having to stop and switch the caboose around back to the train. It was also common to run a 2-8-8-2 up front with a 2-10-2 pusher. All the photos I saw showed the caboose being pushed, although I expect this practice varied with different roads.
And that’s how I will model the operations, if and when I get that far. Of course, I will need to add to my 2-10-2 roster first…
Brad
I had a couple of those Bachmann locos, but had to return them as they were too long for my turntable. You’re right about them being a bit light, but you should be able to add at least a couple of ounces of lead to them fairly easily, and even more if you don’t mind doing some work.
My mainline power is either Bachmann 2-8-0s or Athearn 2-8-2s (all modified), and I usually use a pair (any combination) on my 2.5% grades with a 100 oz. coal train. For longer or heavier trains, I’ve used up to four on a train, and they worked well whether all on the head-end, spread throughout the train, or 2 or 3 pulling with 2 or 1 pushing. You’ll find that uphill is generally easier, as long as all locos are actually needed to move the train. On my layout, especially long trains can be strung out over several grades both uphill and down at the same time, and several curves, too, in various directions, so slack run-in and run-out needs to be watched carefully. Low speeds are a must, and your locos need to be very reliable runners - a stall or hesitation can turn a moving train into part of the scenery pretty quickly. [swg] I normally run trains of only 25 cars or less, though. Control is DC.
In the steam era, the CNR’s steepest grade was on the Niagara Escarpment, near Thorold, Ontario. In Ian Wilson’s book Steam to the Niagara Frontier, there are pictures of a train pulled by a Northern, with two pilot engines (helpers) on the front end, a big Consolidation and a Mike. A Mikado or Consolidation, normally rated for 3500 tons, was good for 1100 tons on this subdivision, while a Northern dropped from 4100 to 1200.
Wayne
As far as whether the rear end pusher would be in front of or behind the caboose, two factors:
Railroad policy. If senior management decreed, “No locomotives pushing behind the caboose,” that ended the discussion.
Caboose construction. Steel-frame cabooses can be pushed. Pushing a wood frame caboose with anything in front of it would probably reduce it to toothpicks.
Depending on load, the N&W would put a pair of 2-8-8-2s on the head end and then pick up a third as a pusher - behind the steel-framed caboose.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with pushers)
Many times the PRR would have one or two 2-10-0’s on the point and two 2-10-0’s pushing on their coal trains.
Rick
What a great thread! Thanks to everyone for sharing the fruits of their research and providing clues for further investigation. I can only hope that someday I’ll be able to contribute at the level that you folks do.
BTW: Walthers has Proto 2-10-2’s on sale for some pretty good prices:
DC 135.98 (reg 359.98)
DCC w/snd 176.98 (reg 469.98)
Seems strange to call a 2-10-2 a “pusher” or “helper” If this engine was sitting alone in the coal dock would you refer to it as a “pusher”, as written, the C.P.R. used specific locos for that job, almost like yard switchers for the job.
Look at the tender of the S2as…they only operated from Field to LL.
David B
I think on a layout this would look the best unless you had a 40 car consist… Like said above the PRR put them in front & back.
Some time back I sent an e-mail to MR editor Jim Hediger complimenting him on a review of the Bachmann USRA 2-6-6-2 in which they actually mentioned the overall length, and that it would fit on a 13" turntable. But since then, I’ve seen little improvement in listing overall length. At least Broadway Limited and Precision Craft manage to usually provode this info, but I’m disappointed that it is not a regular and REQUIRED part of a steam loco review.
You’re right, that certainly would be a helpful addition to any loco review. Of course, a few months after returning the 2-10-2s, I bought one of those Bachmann 2-6-6-2s, used, but I plan on shortening the tender enough that it’ll fit on my scratchbuilt 89’ turntable. The loco will be used in short-haul transfer service, and I’ll also add a second short tender for extra water. Easy (on a model anyway) to uncoupler the auxilliary tender for turning, when required.
The Bachmann 2-10-2 was the loco that I figured would be released by somebody as soon as I had finished rebuilding this old Akane 2-10-2 for a friend, to more closely match its prototype. I’m not sure now, though, if the plastic model would have been any easier to modify.
Wayne
tatans, with respect to calling a 2-10-2 “pusher” and such:
Yes, if its residency at that site was for the purposes of helping/shoving/pushing trains over a grade. Although it could haul its own load if it were the intended consist power for the duration of the trip, its temporary service was its designation; hence, pusher. It would cut off and return light down to push again, while the originally assigned head-end power would do the rest of the journey.
-Crandell