Most of my rolling stock consist of vintage Athearn or vintage Mantua/Tyco. The latter cars have Talgo trucks.
Why do people dislike these so much? I have no issues with them. They perform well in both forward and reverse. I should specify that these are the older, metal Mantua trucks, if that makes a difference.
Does it make a difference if you have a mix of Talgo and frame-mounted couplers on your train?
Couplers mounted to the truck (talgo style) allow the forces exerted onto the coupler (pushing or pulling) to be transferred to the wheels.
This makes the car more prone to derailments.
Talgo couplers have a couple of advantages, and I plan to use them on the five freight cars I use on my Timesaver trackage.
-Kevin
All my passenger cars are Athearn and all have Talgo trucks. I’ve never had any problems with them. I use Kadee #119 scale shelf couplers and Athearn metal wheels.
I couldn’t ask for better running passenger cars. I back them into my yard for storage through Atlas code 83 #4 Custom Line Turnouts, S curve too.
Mel
My Model Railroad
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/
Bakersfield, California
I’m beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
If you back up long trains around curves they are a problem - the average freight train on my layout is 40 cars long. They perform well on short trains, not long trains. As train length grows, the side stress transfered to the flanges on curves grows for the cars near the front of the train. At some point it is to much.
With body mounted couplers trains over 100 cars are easily pulled or backed on large layouts without issue.
They distract from the scale appearance, real trains don’t have them.
The longer cars are, more a Talgo truck will develope unwanted forces on curves when coupled a frame mounted coupler.
They are a concession to sharp curves, in my case I don’t have sharp curves and I don’t have any rolling stock with Talgo mounted couplers.
I have lots of Athearn and ConCor passenger cars which are all converted to body mounted couplers and close coupled with working daiphragms.
My minimum mainline radius is 36".
I banned Talgo couplers in 1974…
Sheldon
The original question hit on why shock control doesnt have issues with his talgo trucks. He said they are all metal. If he put down good trackwork, they will track well. Because of the weight. The later all derlin plastic talgo is way to light to track well. Metal wheels on all metal talgo trucks should track well backwards.
Shane
Hello All,
Hate is a strong word.
I prefer to think in terms of, “A better option.”
When I began in this great hobby in the early 1970’s Tyco HO seemed to “Rule The Roost”, so to speak.
Even back then I envied the more prototypical appearance of the knuckle couplers over the XF2s.
For the time, the FX2 couplers with the truck-mounted- -Talgo- -arrangement was sufficient.
With DC operations the movements of cars and trains were limited to DC block movements.
Uncoupling the XF2s required a proprietary uncoupling ramp or the venerable 0-5-0 method. While the knuckle couplers could be uncoupled with a magnet or pick.
With the XF2s there was no such thing as “delayed” action. They were either coupled or uncoupled, there was noting in between.
I have a fleet of over 30 Tyco 34-foot operating hoppers. When I acquired them they all had truck-mounted (Talgo style) couplers.
At first, I tried the Talgo adapter with the venerable #5 couplers. As I have previously posted, these cars ran fine on straight and level track in the forward direction of travel.
When I attempted to shove or move these same cars up the 3% curved grade the problems with the truck-mounted couplers came to light.
It has been a lengthy process to convert these vintage cars to body-mounted couplers with metal wheels and plastic trucks.
This endeavor has proved, for me, a worthy endeavor.
If the older style coupler arrangement works for you, far be it for me to contradict what works for you.
I don’t “hate” the XF2s or their truck-mounted configuration, I just found a better solution for my situation.
Hope this helps.
If we are talking about Talgo trucks and X2F coupler, they are ugly as sin.
Your trains won’t run well with a bag over them and if you have a bag over your head, so you can’t see them if their bag breaks, it takes all the fun out of MR.
Thanks all for the replies!
A few things:
I do not stand or sit very close to the train, so I can’t tell if it has Talgo trucks or not. So aesthetically, it does not matter.
I don’t run long trains with my current layout.
In terms of performance with long trains, does it make a difference if a talgo cars are placed between two cars with frame-mounted couplers, as opposed to having a long line of talgo cars?
Example, a passenger train of all Talgo trucks is less likely to have issues than even a freight train of shorter cars that are mix of both types.
Sheldon
Shock Control,
Just to be clear, I understand what you do with your trains and honestly that does not require the “highest” performance standards to work well.
Those of us with different goals make different choices. Mel uses Talgo couplers on his passenger cars for good performance on sharper curves.
I don’t need sharp curve performance, so this allows me to couple passenger cars closer and use working diaphragms and frame mounted couplers.
While my 36" and larger curves will accommodate long cars, most of my passenger cars are still 72" “shorties” which look evn more graceful on large curves.
I get that what you do is fun for you. It would not really hold my interest for more than a day.
So, for me Talgo couplers are a non starter. For other situations they are just fine.
Everyone finds their own interests in this hobby, there is no wrong way. But those with a deeper interest in the scale modeling or scale operation aspects of this hobby will have different needs than those who’s interests are more casual.
Example, most of my 800 plus freight cars are (or will be) equipped with a somewhat unique freight truck setup.
I take Kadee sprung metal trucks, and repalce the Kadee plastic axle wheelsets with Intermountain all metal wheelsets.
This makes for a heavy, sprung and equalized truck that has superior tracking and superior free rolling qualities. When pull 35, or 50, or sometimes 75 cars, they make a difference.
Sheldon
Oh, I understand, no worries. I just didn’t know what the issue was.
I have Talgos on my Athearn passenger cars. I run a train with F3 A&B units and five passenger cars and it works great.
I was really asking more about the performance/physics aspect. Obviously, those long passenger cars over sharper curves will work well with Talgo trucks. I was trying to understand the physics and performance aspects with 40’ freight cars, with the occasional 50’ car thrown in.
To be clear, I would not really seek out Talgo trucks or install them where they didn’t exist, but I like to keep the vintage Mantua cars in as close to their orignal condition as possible.
[quote user=“Shock Control”]
ATLANTIC CENTRAL
Shock Control,Just to be clear, I understand what you do with your trains and honestly that does not require the “highest” performance standards to work well.
Those of us with different goals make different choices. Mel uses Talgo couplers on his passenger cars for good performance on sharper curves.
I don’t need sharp curve performance, so this allows me to couple passenger cars closer and use working diaphragms and frame mounted couplers.
While my 36" and larger curves will accommodate long cars, most of my passenger cars are still 72" “shorties” which look evn more graceful on large curves.
I get that what you do is fun for you. It would not really hold my interest for more than a day.
So, for me Talgo couplers are a non starter. For other situations they are just fine.
Everyone finds their own interests in this hobby, there is no wrong way. But those with a deeper interest in the scale modeling or scale operation aspects of this hobby will have different needs than those who’s interests are more casual.
Sheldon
Oh, I understand, no worries. I just didn’t know what the issue was.
I have Talgos on my Athearn passenger cars. I run a train with F3 A&B units and five passenger cars and it works great.
I was really asking more about the performance/physics aspect. Obviously, those long passenger cars over sharper curves will work well with Talgo trucks. I was trying to understand the physics and performance aspects with 40’ freight cars, with the occasional 50’ car thrown in.
To be clear, I would not really seek out Talgo trucks or install them where they didn’
This can be a problem. Put the two cars on 18 inch radius track. You will see that the talgo mounted coupler is close to the center of the rails. The body mounted couplers will be nearly over the outside rail.
This mis-match will cause the truck with the talgo coupler to run skewed on the rails from the coupler pulling it towards the side,
This will make derailments far more likely. S-curves will virtually guarantee a derailment. Very broad curves will make it better.
-Kevin
There’s a difference between using talgo trucks with X2f couplers and with Kadee couplers - the X2f design, or at least the mass produced version that appeared on most products once it became a defacto standard, exert a lot of side pressure. Especially when backing up - this forces the truck to angle and makes it easier for a flange to pick a switch point or just climb the rail and derail.
Kadee couplers put a lot less side force on the trucks, so you may have better results when Kadee and compatible couplers are used.
–Randy
I built a raw frac sand train, 24 cars, all Life Like, with talgo trucks, wheels replace with IM 36", and couplers replaced with Kadee #148 whiskers, using the Kadee talgo adaptor kit.
It runs fine, at scale track speeds of 55 mph. I never have to back this train up, so, no problems.
The cars are weighted properly, a tad more than NMRA standards.
I did do extensive body work to the cars to get rid of “thick” ladders and details.
I’ve had no problem running this train, with the Talgos.
Mike.
I replaced all my X2F couplers on my ancient Tyco rolling stock with Kadees. It was easier for me to remove the coupler attachment from the truck, drill and tap a hole and then use a Kadee coupler box to body mount the new coupler. Mine were old metal trucks, so when I decided to upgrade to Intermountain wheelsets, I quickly discovered that just wheelset replacement was next to impossible, so I dumped the old trucks, too.
As I recall, the old Talgo trucks I had used pizza cutter wheels, which were OK on Code 100 track but bumped along the ties on Code 83. It was another good reason to dump the old Talgo stuff.
Nice work Mike… your sand train looks great.
-Kevin
I put up with a lot of stuff on my layout. But talgo trucks is not one of them. Early on, I dumped any rolling stock with talgo trucks. Impossible in my experience to back cars up without derailing. Even going forward, talgo trucks seem to drag the cars around the layout rather than pull them.
Rich
Same as Rich. I don’t have any rolling stock with Talgo trucks. No thankyou.
I don’t hate them, but I don’t have them either. The only Tyco stuff I can remember having was my ex-wife’s old HO train and those are long long gone.
Different strokes and all that.
No Tyco here either, unless it is MANUTA.