The recent topic about appraisals got me thinking about my trains.
Am curious as to how you view your participant in the hobby.
As for myself, I have become a “player with” rather than a modeler and certainly not an investor.
As always, many thanks.
Yes, there are investors who speculate in trains. I hope they loose their shirts.
There are also people who justify spending big dollars on trains by telling themselves that they will be able to sell them in the future and get most of their money back, or even make a profit. I think these are the people who have declared that collecting is dying and dead.
These ideas were reinforced and even encouraged by articles in the Toy Train press, and the frequent releases of new price guides with prices spiralling ever upward. The Toy Train manufacturers / importers also incourage these ideas too. Their business depends on it.
Buying any sort of collectables as an investment isn’t really a very good idea. I think there will always be collectors, but what they are interested in collecting will change. (This comment isn’t limited to trains).
My suggestion: buy the trains you like and can afford, with no expectation of later resale.
By the way, there is also a factor that some call “limited demand”.
That means when you learn of some item selling for a substantial price, that doesn’t mean that every example of that item in the same condition is going to fetch the same money. There are only so many people willing to pay that much. Once they have theirs, the value drops to whatever the next person is willing to pay.
Hertz wrote about this in his book; “The Toy Collector”. Its still a good read.
Another thought: Rare does not necessarily mean valuable. If people don’t know an item is rare and/or don’t care, then that item won’t fetch much.
The time to have sold your trains as an investment was probably around 2000. While the saying goes there is still top dollar for top quality (i.e. mint or uncommon) that market is getting smaller (i.e. older). I wouldn’t buy anything in model railroading based on getting a sizable portion of your purchase price back later. Buy it because you like it.
Hobbyist. I enjoy running trains, and prefer to operate them on sceniced layouts representing regions that interest me. The planning stage is just as gratifying as the construction phase. I still set down with pencil and template, and “reason” my trackplan within the confines of the alotted space given. My earlier life as a smaller scale “rivet counter”, and even an entrepreneur (I custom-painted for over a decade), have given way to much simpler efforts of ready-to-run and plug-and-play.
…and a Collector. Everyone is “coded” with hunter/gatherer tendencies. Mine just happen to center on trains. I discipline myself to stay within a certain era and location, which helps keep the inventory down (my spouse would question that…). I’ve added some Postwar toy trains to my collection, for nothing more than the nostalgic, happy feeling that operating these pieces gives me. My favorite hunting ground is the train show, but I do “haunt” ebay way too much to obtain what I “think” I need.
Never once have I thought of the investment of my collection. Every item I’ve bought (or have been gifted) was purposefull only to me. I remember TCA members during the 80’s “buying one to run, and one to collect”, often wondering how that worked out for them. I can’t imagine someone these days storing a nearly thousand dollar Legacy, or Vision Line, or Premier engine in Mom’s attic for 20 years, thinking they might bring more at resale (if they would even start up and run…).
CWBurfle is correct, your train is only worth what the next guy is willing to pay for them.
I like to think of myself as a caretaker of my trains, and that one day they will bring happiness to the next hunter/gatherer.
I have thought of the investment of my collection but not for long. I buy what I like at the time and when I do spend on e-bay or other places I do it on the cheap. So there is the least investment. If I want to invest I will leave it in the 401K.
For me it is about the hobby, construction, fixing, grand-kids and most of all the fun.
Great topic.
I agree that the train market likely peaked around 2000 +/- a year or two and one should not be viewing the trains as a long-term investment that is going to significantly appreciate.
I also agree that I view myself as the present “caretaker” of my items.
I know that there are all sorts of people interested in trains. There are the operators, hobbyists, and collectors.
The one thing that I have found more valuable than the trains, are the friends I have met over the years. I now spend a full week at the TCA York shows, not expecting to make a great find, but to meet up with friends and talk to the various people I have met over the years. At the October 2016 York TCA show, I spent very little, but had a great time with my friends.
NWL
Hotest buy/sell time was late 70s early 80s. The thought then was that prices would keep going up. Today just a few items that suddenly appear popular are about the only real profit pieces. Of course there is still a market for regular items but not with a big profit attached.
Investment not!!. I buy and sell a lot more as something to do. I keep an eye on a lot of items as an idea of whats going on. a lot I buy need work on so it gives me something to do. If lucky I break even. Why do I do it then, as stated something to do. Do I lose a lot not really, I come close to breaking even. But to give you an idea of keeping their value. Go look at some of these 4-6-6-4 etc type engines , what did they sell for new and what they are selling for now ( between 1/2 and 3/4 of original price. ) Post war other than a few ( like SJ said ) most don’t even come close, especially once you consider the cost of living adjustment over the years.
I feel lucky as I presently have one car I actually consider rare but will it keep holding it’s value. Maybe but I don’t bet on it. I feel eventually most trains will lose their collectability. A day I do not wish to see. I mainly collect to enjoy not thinking of profit as a whole.
Something I’ve noticed: anything that I am interested in obtaining is still going for a good buck. But the prices are very soft on all the things I’d consider letting go. 
Yeah. Remember the uproar when Lionel announced a second run of the SP Daylight? The “investment crowd” went ballistic.
Yes
And collector cars that were only sold in the sets. You had to buy the set to get one car. Good money made on a break-up but then the set was shot.
I was kind of caught on the collector treadmill for quite a while. Then I bought some MPC engines with (ugh, the ignominy!) USED boxes and maybe even (collective gasp!) a SCRATCH or TWO!
Needless to say, in 20+ years of buying/operating/collecting, I’ve never been happier. I find the more I spend on a train set/engine/piece, the less I enjoy it for some reason.
If your want an investment, buy mutual funds. Trains are to be run and enjoyed. If they increase in value, that’s fine but it should not be the main reason to buy trains.
I buy trains that I like and just run them. I have Lionel from 1906 through 2015 in Standard and O gauge, I have a few modern European tinplate trains from ACE and Darstaed as well as a couple of 3rd Rail scale brass engines with hirail wheels and a 1999 vintage Basset-Lowke O gauge live steam Mogul. I collect, sort of, I have a few old Marklin, Bing, Hornby and Basset Lowke O gauge from the 1920’s and 1930’s that are still in running order. I’m still trying to find a Bowman O gauge tinplate, oscilating cylinder live steamer from the 1925 era, which were made in England. I’m sure my kids will sell them after I’m gone as I’m the only model railroader in the family.
My interest in trains began when my dad bought a Scout-type set in the early sixties. He’d set it up around the tree when Christmas would come around. Then in 1963 or 1964 he bought a bicycle wheel to put the trains on. I don’t remember how he did it, but he somehow built a stand that held the wheel at an angle. He put a bunch of Plasticville buildings on the covered spokes and figured out a way to power the circle of track along the rim of the wheel. Once the train was on the track, it’s weight would make the wheel spin around along with all the scenery on it. He had to be careful not to run the train too fast or else it would climb to the top despite the angle. If it reached the top, the speed would accelerate very fast and the whole train would come crashing down onto the floor. It was only a few inches off the floor, but the whole train would hit the floor very hard. My dad put a piece of carpeting under it, but only after a few pieces came flying off of some of the cars. To this day, the #233 engine is missing one of its marker lights, the #233W tender and black #6476 Lehigh Valley hopper have a lot of chips on them, the #6343 barrel ramp car has some broken railings, and the brown, #6017 Lionel Lines caboose has parts of its roof missing. My dad bought a red bay window caboose, but the body ended up getting damaged to the point it wouldn’t stay on the chasis. He reverted back to using the original caboose with the broken roof. Both the blue, #6162 NYC gondola with canisters and the noisy #3444 Erie animated gondola escaped noticeable damage. Luckily the lighted #6434 Poultry Dispatch boxcar escaped with only damage to one of its couplers.
Those may seem like horror stories to a “collector”, but I remember my dad being so proud of his invention and the excitement/awe/freakout when the train would make it to the top and then crash. He never tried to make
I’ve never bought anything with the thought of making a buck on it a few years later. I’ll run everything right from a basic MPC era locomotive right on up to the latest and greatest Legacy locomotives. Mr. Cowen never intended for his trains to be sitting in boxes on a shelf. As mentioned earlier, the boom seems to have passed. I don’t see the postwar product fetching the prices it had 20 years ago. I operate and collect mostly Canadian railroads, so for instance, the Canadian Pacific 2373 F3s mean more to me for the name on the side than being a desired collectible. I would still have them if they were a dime a dozen.
2 decades ago I rationalised that it was OK to spend a lot on trains as you could get your money back and even make some. Those were the days of only prewar, post war and MPC plus Marx and early K Line.
I bought more than makes any sense, much are stored.
Today who are you going to sell to? many of potential customers already have everything they want and are 73 like me. A lot of people die around 80 I hate to say.
2 decades ago I rationalised that it was OK to spend a lot on trains as you could get your money back and even make some.
A lot of people did.
I don’t buy automobiles to sit in garages and I don’t buy toy trains to set in glass cabinets. Cars were meant to be driven and toy trains were ment to be played with. I would have to come across a very rare car in order to purcahse and not drive it. I would have to come across a pretty rare toy train item for it to just sit on a shelf.