Bob,I suspect it will be direct sales only…Look at the manufacturers that sell direct now and some times at a discount…Its no longer “Your dealer can get it from Walthers” now its you can order direct and may even get a on sale discount that some shops won’t honor.
There’s the answer-----as sad as it is.
When I started in this hobby, I was stationed in Germany in 1971. There was no LHS - the PX Toyland sold some Tyco trains. I didn’t know anyone in the hobby. MR introduced me to the hobby and for 2 years I mail ordered everything I needed (except for the Tyco trains I started with). I also ordered some of Kalmbach’s model railroading books as well to learn about wiring, track planning, scenery, scratchbuilding, etc.
Then I did stuff and when I made mistakes I analyzed and corrected them and moved forward.
These days with online videos, forums, websites with pictures all free it’s so much easier to get started. And the mail order (now internet) stores are still there. MR is still there as well as lots of model railroading books.
So while I agree that a LHS can be helpful, lack of one is not an obstacle.
Frankly, I think lack of trains in toy stores / toy departments is the bigger issue. Everytime a Walmart, Target, etc. opens there’s a new toy department with no trains.
Enjoy
Paul
I would definitely agree with that. When I was a kid there was exposure to the hobby in a variety of places. I was lucky in that the town where we lived had 3 LHS, two of which were in walking distance and one was exclusively trains. Then of course Woolworth’s had a sizeable hobby section with lots of train stuff & there was a second, independently owned 5 & 10 called J.A.Rowes that also had a pretty fair hobby section. And a lot of the department stores did too. We even had a local Hardware store that had hobby & train stuff.
The advantage to me personally was the ability to get a “hands on” look at things before you spent your money. You could decide if you liked it or if it fit the bill before you bought it. (How many tmes have you seen posts on forums such as this of someone not being terribly thrilled with something that just arrived that they bought online?) And at the LHS’s there were people there that could make suggestions or steer you in the right direction towards something that might work better than what you might have initially had in mind, before you spend your money. You got first hand exposure to the stuff rather than watching videos of it or looking at photos of it & reading the manufacturer’s naturally biased write-ups. You could look, touch & decide for yourself. Thankfully, forums such as this do tend fill that part of the niche.
All that is pretty much gone now. It’s a 180 mile round trip drive to the nearest train shop now & that’s $30.-$35. worth of gas and about 5 hours all told. So, I resign myself to trying to learn as much about what I want or need for the layout online & then buy online as well. Don’t have a whole lot of choice anymore. I wish it were not so, but
[quote user=“dknelson”]
BPoi
… but the fact is that anything I can buy in a physical store is available cheaper and, quite frankly faster, over the internet if the shop wouldn’t have had what I wanted in stock. And the sharing of knowledge–hello, this forum–is faster as well.
All of this is in my opinion, only.
Bruce
I would only take serious issue with Bruce on two points. Even the guys I know who purchase almost exclusively via the internet do that primarily for the big ticket locomotives and highly desired limited run rolling stock. For the plain old work-a-day stuff like rail joiners, bottles of glue, extra couplers, and the like, they still go to the LHS, and will be upset if it closes. But no shop can make a go just selling that little stuff.
And when you are in mid project and you need that certain size of Evergreen styrene strip, or that certain color of Tamiya rattle can paint, or those Kadee washers to make the coupler height come out correct, you want that ASAP and might even be willing to pay more for it. If the LHS doesn’t have it you curse the LHS. Then you sometimes learn that even Walthers doesn’t have it either. But if the LHS does have it, being able to have it in your hand that day still has value.
As to whether the sharing of knowledge on this forum is as reliable as what you might hear at a hobby shop I am reluctant to opine, being somewhat of a knowledge-sharer myself. I will freely concede it is faster as a rule. Have enough people answer one question and one of those answers is bound to be right. Which one it is is still up to the questioner.
Dave Nelson
Here is my ten bucks worth…Kalmbach and others have coined the phrase…“The world’s greatest hobby”. I agree to some extent, but it just ain’t quite accurate. More accurate would be “The world’s most secretive hobby.”…and there lies much of the problem. It appears to me that everything in this hobby seems to be marketed to just the hobby and not presented to the general public. Decades back, this was not the case…there were even TV shows about model trains, ads everywhere, train and hobby sections in most department store, and so much more. Young adults today are missing out on so much by not developing skills that require manual dexterity found in model building. Xboxes, Ipads, and all of the other high tech electronic game systems and associated bull crap to me are creating nothing but a nation of nerds and nerdettes. The term “train nerd” is an oxymoron as we hobbyists are anything but nerds…“artists” would work for openers.
Brass models are a fine example of lack of forsight among the so many past and current importers. Here is a field that offers much for serious collectors of fine art, and rest assured that brass models are art in the fullest sense…but they have only been marketed to folks within the hobby, and indeed quite a small group considering that just about everyone on this planet has some sort of affection if not interest in railroads…or at least knowledge. Just go to a "collectible show and you’ll find the damnest things being collected including antique condoms. Many of these collectible items have publictions available to the general public (although I seriously doubt that magazine exists on condom collecting).
Folks…we have done this to ourselves. I’m doing my best by sponsoring a rather large train show for the last 32 years, I support my LHS and others, even though I can get better prices on line. but I know once all sof the LHS’s are gone so eventually will go the
The hobby isn’t dying but the local hobby shop is, and so are we. Our old ways of looking at things, buying things, and using them are dying. Just as has always happened. So What. Enjoy now and if you’re worried about the future go on the good ol’ YouTube and search “maker” and follow some of the threads. Young people are making everything out of everything (just like they always did). They’re using home made CNC machines and 3D printers, they’re making things that never existed and they’re making things that did exist in exquisite detail. Would they buy from a local hobby shop? Maybe, but then they might “hack” the dickens out of what they bought to make it fit their vision. No one worries about being a “nerd” because nerd is a subset of cool today. Can’t play B Ball? Go be Bill Gates or Steve Jobs. Make a zillion.
Yeah, some of 'em are space cases but by and large, “the kids are alright”. Things’ll be just fine.
Lou
Alco,
I’ll back you up on this…I have been there several times in the last few years…Current store is a small shop, not much in the way of stock and a bit of a depressing atmosphere…They were a rockin place many years ago and sort of slowly got worn down by it all.
I did visit them in the 1960’s at a different location, much more stuff and better atmosphere…
We still have a few good shops left in the bay area including my favorite: The train shop in Santa Clara…
Guy
I hear from a reliable source that they tried internet sales without success (also here they had different pricing in store than on the net which upset some long term customers).
I find myself doing almost precisely this for myself, namely stockpiling specific things like track and model supplies that I won’t be able to easily find at my local Micheal’s if both the local train store and the local RC hobby shop go phoom.
In a twist to this story one of our local train shops, San Val, one day announced it was closing, there was much angst and gnashing of teeth in the hobby as they were a major source, but then it was gone, only not really. A short time latter the owner started selling stuff thru an ebay store and we came to find it was from his house, no store no overhead no employees no health care. He still sells pretty similar stuff to what he had in the store but now its all online.
I dread the day when the LHS guys decide its time to hang it up & retire to Florida but I also have to wonder, if everything is going online, why is the USPS still having money problems? You’d think they’d be doing OK with the online shipping mailing business, granted UPS and FedEx have big shares of that, but I have always found the USPS to be more reliable than either of the two private services. Just a thought.
Sad to see FHS go away, I found them quite by accident while walking around SF one day, turned a corner and hey! a hobby shop!
Well,here’s what I have read on this and other forums and heard…
You mention USPS to some and the normal reply is “they’re to slow”,“costs as much as UPS”,I don’t want to stand in line at the post office when all I need to do is drop my package off at a UPS point".
The majority I talked to didn’t know the priority shipping boxes are free,can be ordered on line delivered to your door and when its ready to ship your mailman/woman will pick it up at your door.
Common knowledge.
I’ll toss in my thoughts… I think the loss of the brick and mortar hobby shop is something that’s more emotional than anything else. Its no real problem for most of us. I like the idea of supporting mom and pop businesses over big box companies, but at the end of the day, we’re talking about retail stores. Most retail stores don’t add value to a product, they just sell what has been made by somebody else and simply bring that product to the consumer. In the end, whether its big box stores, mail order, internet, or mom and pop shops, I don’t really care because they are all interchangeable to me. I’m sorry if that offends people, but if a shop doesn’t offer a service, a warranty, some knowledge and expertise, i.e, something of value other than just an opportunity for me to buy a pre-packaged item, where I buy the item makes no difference to me.
While it presents some sadness to me to see these shops close, like a part of my childhood fading away, it doesn’t keep me from being able to buy model train items. If LHS’s closing actually hurt my ability to find what I want, then it would be a problem.
If you want to be technical, the earth won’t last forever. But lets not get into that since this is a train forum and not a Religious forum.
As we’ve all been noticing since the 70’s, brick and mortor stores have been closing and probably since online vendors became the norm, that has accelerlated. I expect the shift wll continue as shops no longer remain financialy viable without internet sales. Most of the long term vendors will be internet only or a hybrid of internet and store front. I expect those internet vendors who do close will mostly close when the owner retires and no body is taking over - just like B&M store.
If this warms the cockles of your heart, I heard a report on the radio that many traditional stores, including shopping malls, are losing relevance and will be suffing sales in the internet age.
In the last 5 years or so, I’ve seen the two major hobby shops that could be considered local close. But in the thirty or more years I used them, I also saw one of them slowly changing, stocking more RTR and fewer kits and parts. The other, the owner is older than I am, retired, I don’t blame him, I don’t know if he tried to find someone to carry the business after he’d decided he was going to retire.
The one I would consider my LHS survives more because he’s also a custom woodworker and also stocks a lot of craft materials. But in model railroad, as well as model boats and aircraft, he’s a “one supplier” store. Unfortunately, that’s usually Horizon. They can supply him with a limited range of products, but that limited range is not enough.
Then, the prices of the hobby materials has gone through the roof, for whatever reasons. IF I want scribed sheeting or stripwood, I have to order it and wait, which I do and I’m thankful it’s still available. Ditto for detail parts, he can’t afford to stock most of them.
But there are also other reasons that we don’t have any control over, one of them being years ago while I was working, for long periods I was working a forty hour week, and as much overtime as I wanted, or more than I wanted. I had the bucks. Now, finding a forty hour a week job is difficult, and overtime is a thing of the past. Combine that with rising prices, shouldn’t be difficult to figure what’s not going to happen.
Hobbies are for the most part impulse buying. Which is where the LHS excells, I came, I saw, I want. If I don’t go, I don’t see, and I don’t want. THe LHS is the only place in town I even see models of any kind, beyond the Ertl tractors. The chance for an impulse buy and the sometimes additional buys is not here anymore. The LHS is caught in a bind, he can’t afford to st
[quote user=“BRAKIE”]
richhotrain
BRAKIE
richhotrain
The LHS provided the physical presence of sample layouts, inventory, and on site expertise. It is pretty hard to get excited about the hobby when all you have to go on is a laptop or a mini-iPad. RichI know this…My youngest grandson is a gamer like his dad and has never bought a game from any retail shop including Gamestop.He buys his games on line.When he is stuck in a game he turns to youtube for the solution…
Besides model railroading doesn’t require a PHD and help can be found on the internet through forums such as this and youtube and that help is available 24/7…
Not the same thing, Larry.
Buying a computer game to play on a computer is not the same thing as buying a locomotive, rolling stock, a power pack, setting up electronics, landscaping, building structures, installing decoders in DCC, etc, etc, etc.
Rich
All of those concerns is covered on forums,youtube and Kalmbach books…
You seem be clinging to the age of dinosaurs when you’re in the computer age and the same thing is dooming hobby shops.
Did you know Woodland Scenics has videos on their web site that shows you how to use their products?
This thread long ago began to bore me.
Rich
I’m a bit reluctant to comment given that I never visited the store in question (I think that living 3,000 miles away is a decent excuse).
I personally believe that this in part is macro economics; yes, the world of the Internet has made brick-and-mortar retailing even tougher than before (and folks, its never been easy).
But only in part, and I think less than 50%. If you can find an inexpensive location, have sufficient capital (BTW well under $1M and way, way under Sheldon’s $10M) and make intelligent business decisions I fully believe that a living can still be had out of a model-railroading focused hobby shop. From the sound of it, and despite the owner’s “cry me a river”, it seems that this shop was NOT well run.
Look at Caboose Hobbies as an example (and yes, if THEY go under then I will admit that bricks and mortar hobby shops are probably not salvageable). What are they doing right?
They HAVE stuff (BTW I live in the Washington, D.C. metro area so am not a regular Caboose customer). Folks, there was mail order long before there was the Internet. I often mail-ordered stuff from Walthers that I would have preferred to buy locally because “We can get it for you [in four to eight weeks while we bunch our next wholesale order]” DOES NOT CUT IT. Why were the local shops mostly always OUT of the basic stuff I needed - paint, glue, stripwood, etc.? Answer: They were lousy businessmen who couldn’t track or plan their inventory.
What else? They have a thriving mail-order business that additionally supports their retail store. You know the saying - if you can’t beat them, join them.
Its really too bad. The last dedicated model train shop in my area closed years ago when their sweetheart lease ran out. Another macro trend is that while there is a well-run generally well-stocked general-purpose hobby store (Piper Hobby) in the area, it is 12 miles away which 10 years ago was maybe $1.80 in gas for me and today is $5
And yet you continue to read it and post to it.[banghead]
[(-D]
Paul
Mayhap I’m wrong for some…
My son’s group( clan?) orders on line and through e-bay…My youngest grandson(15) and his group orders from some on line shop that specializes in such things.All head over to Hobby Lobby and buy their Woodland Scenics material for their gaming table(or what ever its called).
What amazes me there is lots of adults playing those games and some does excellent scenery work…
That is what I throught TOO!
BOB H - Clarion, PA
STEAMNUT,
I just happened to reread a lot of these posts and came across Your’s, where you stated what your son is into. I’m not going to get in a long thing about Model Railroading dying, for if in fact it is, there would be nothing Icould do to prevent it. To me, it will always be there for those who want it to be. Times change and one thing for me anyway has not. I enjoy the craftsman side of any hobby, plain and simple. One of my son’s who is 40, a well known computer geek, if you want to use the term, is also a Warhammer 40,000 Games Workshop, heavy duty player and guess who builds and paints His Models, yours truly. I lot of people complain that they don’t have patience or skills in Trains, well they would be out of luck, with Warhammer, figures and vehicles as your Son will attest. Plastic sprues, full of heads, arms, legs, torso’s, weapons,laser cannons, you name it, all molded in one color, light grey. Now that is a craftsman skill and I salute your Son. Ask him if he knows about the Imperial Guard Chimera, that is my Son’s choice for his Army. I am slowly building a 150 gal fish tank diorama, for his War, along with playing with trains.
Take Care!
Frank