I will be building a new layout in an 9x10 room–I want to do it right the first time–do I use 3/4 inch plywood covered with homasote–do I use homasote only and then cork–do I use plywood and then cork–there are so many options–what is the best way for HO. Thanks, Tom
There is no “best” way per se. They all depend on your application and skill/patience. However, the homasote covered with cork would not get my seal of approval. Homasote is quiet, easily nailed, and seems to work well as a top layer, but I would not agree to its use as a base for a layout. Instead, use either all foam supported by L-girder or 1/2" plywood with joists below it all at 18" centres. Or just the plywood covered with as many layers of the foam as you will need to generate the topography and grades you envision…still supported every 18-24" with joists.
Homasote does a lot better as a top layer for ease of track laying and for keeping the traffic on the rails quiet. But it is hydroscopic and will swell notieably in high humidity. You will therefore have to seal it somehow in order to keep the kinks and gaps out of your rail sytem.
I used foam stacked for my first layout, but have gone to spline roadbed and hardshell. These are labour intensive, oh yeah, but the results are spectacular…at least, for me and my abilities.
There is no best way. It depends a lot on the climate of where you live. Our club layout has the 3/4 plywood base cookie cutter style with 1/2" homosate roadbed. We lay the track directly on it with Matte Medium for glue. However, we are in a semi-arid region and the humidity doesn’t vary too much. Homasote will expand and contract with the humidty. At home I use 1/2" plywood cookie cutter with cork road bed, however the cork will dry out eventually (like about 20 years) because I do live in a semi-arid region. On the modular take-to-train-shows layout, I have 2" extruded foam base with AMI roadbed (Yuck should have used cork). Three very different methods. All work. All have different issues.
The required thickness of plywood will depend upon how close together the supporting beams are, and how wide the sub-roadbed is cut. At the club with the 3/4" plywood we don’t give a second though to running across a 24" gap. At home with the 1/2" plywood I wouldn’t try to go more than 18" between supports, and prefer 15".
I would not however put homasote down and then put cork on that. That would give you the worst of both those products.
Also I can say if you go with a foam base (extruded foam. nothing else under it), do not not not glue the track directly to the foam. It acts like a drum head and magnifies all sound. Use the cork, homasote, or Woodland Scenics foam roadbed to muffle the sound.
For my mountain regions I have 3/4 ply cookie cutter with WS foam roadbed and flex track glued with latex caulk. For flat areas I have 1 inch extruded foam as table and WS road bed for mainline and the flex is glued directly to the foam for the yards. There are other good way, but this is easy and inexpensive, especially if you can get scrap foam from contruction sites.
I use cork on 1/2" plywood supported very 12" and have been happy with it. As you can see, others have different preferences.
Whichever way you go be sure to follow sound construction principles and use quality materials - there are books available if you are uncertain how to do this.
Good luck
Paul
Probably the easiest way to answer this question is to explain the purpose/strengths/weakness of each material.
Plywood: provide a solid base for trackwork, if cut into narrow strips (as in the cookie cutter method) it needs support at regular intervals to prevent warping/sagging. The interval will depend on the thickness and number of plys in the plywood, and the width of the cut. It’s not recommended to put the track right on the plywood because it amplifies sound and is difficult to drive spikes or track nails.
Homosote: good sound deadening material. Since it comes in 4 x 8 foot sheets, good for covering an area for the yards or any wide track area. Holds spikes and track nails well, and it’s relatively easy to drive them. It’s not good to use by itself or as a base for cork because it WILL sag, it has very little structural strength.
Cork: The preformed roadbed is good for single or double track base because it provides the beveled edges for the ballast profile, and has about the same sound deadening and spike holding qualities of homosote. Can be more expenisve if use under yard tracks or other wide track area.
Foam: good scenery base, but if you’re planning on using it as the track base, you’ll need to glue the track down. It doesn’t hold spikes or track nails very well.
The “old school” recommendation is to use the plywood (structural strength) as a base for either cork or homosote (sound deadening and spike holding).
Guys: I happen to live in Phoenix, AZ and every time I have gone to one of the BIG home centers and ask for “Homosote” they look at me like I am from Mars! No one I have spoken to has ever heard of this product and it is not listed in any of their reference books. Any ideas why???
dneely
Don’t sweat it. Homasote was the cat’s meow among elite modelers in the '70s and '80s, but like you said it isn’t found everywhere. Don’t worry about it, it’s overrated anyway, it’s not worth the wild goose chase.
Go plywood or foam. Extruded Styrofoam (baby boy/baby girl colors) isn’t very common (or cheap) here in the Southwest part of the US, but a few places have it if you really need it.
I just picked up 4 sheets of homosote at the local Home Depot. Their SKU # 123-024 and the price was $20.85 for a 4 x 8 sheet. If you’re talking about Home Depot, have them check that SKU number in their system.
One homosote solution is to use precut homosote from California Roadbed (called homabed) at www.calroadbed.com. It comes in long half strips (like cork roadbed) and has two shoulder angles to choose from, and sizes for HO or N. There are also strips with cuts in it, for bending around any shaped curve. They also have sheets for yards, and and shaped pads for underneath turnouts. It also eliminates the very, very messy cutting of sheet homasote and the breathing oof particles in the air.
I have used a bunch of it for my hand laid track and have experienced all of the advantages expressed in this thread and the “how to” books. Some time ago there was and long and interesting thread in this forum which pretty much gave evidence from modelers that homasote expansion/contraction is not an issue… but comes from the sub roadbed used below it and/or the rails above it. I highly recommend it.
That said, other types of roadbed expressed in this thread I’m sure work fine and give excellent results and it probably comes down to personal preference and how you yourself look at the pros and cons for your situation.
Hal
I prefer to use a masonite spline for my subroadbed and cork roadbed. I made a cookie-cutter plywood layout before, but there is a lot of wastage unless you are planning on a lot of flat areas between your track. Spline is also very inexpensive since there is virtually no wastage.
But, that assumes you want a layout that’s not flat. If everything will be flat, it just depends on what you are comfortable working with. If you have woodworking tools (sabre saw, etc.) then plywood is easy to do. To work with the foam you’ll eventually want to get a hot wire foam cutter, although you can use saws and knives if you want. Foam is relatively easy to work with if you want to dig out trenches, ponds, rivers, etc. Plywood requires you to plan ahead a bit more, or build up rather than down.
The general benefits have already been discussed above. Homosote is a greyish material that kind of looks like cardboard. It’s made from recycled newpaper, so it might be sold under a different name (like masonite is often sold as hardboard). Homosote is tough on saws and creates a lot of dust.
I prefer cork for my roadbed, and you can get sheets of it for large areas like yards. You can also find it at some hardware stores and get sheets of different thicknesses and it’s usually cheaper than the stuff sold at hobby shops. Cork is easy to work with, easy to shape - especially with a sureform plane.
If you decide to go with foam, look for damaged pieces when you buy it. I’ve been able to get sheets at 1/2 price. They usually have at least one from each pallet that has been gouged by the fork lift.
Randy
The only Advice I have after building mine is DO NOT USE OSB. I wish I could have found Homasote.
Old School worked for the yards (plywood and cork). New school worked for the mains (WS Foam road bed on OSB (should have used plywood)). Never got the hang of the pink foam idea.
The best running track, quit is the WSfoam. Looks before ballast is the cork. After, no clue not done any yet.
Good luck.
Actually, I used OSB for all of the benchwork, with great success. However, as noted, I am using masonite spline for the subroadbed, instead of flat sheets of OSB as a tabletop.
What are the issues that you’ve had using OSB?
Randy
On my HO layout I use 3/4" plywood with cork roadbed. I can space risers/joists between 16" and 24" centers depending on the particular area.
The LHS here in town uses two laminated pieces of 3/8" plywood layered to build their sub-roadbed, thus giving them the total of 3/4" thickness. It is a little time consuming in construction, but they say it is sturdier and creates smoother transitions on grade sections.
I have photos of my benchwork / layout posted on the Photos Page of my website. Or click the link in my signature area below.
After moving halfway across the country, in April '05 I began building my first layout in over … well, in a good long time. I started with Mianne benchwork and plywood. Mianne seems kinda flimsy, and with the humidity and temperature fluctuations here in the Midwest, by August my plywood sheets looked like round-bottomed boats!
I found that hardboard doesn’t warp and is very stiff even with supports only every 2 feet, but it doesn’t take a track nail worth a hoot.
Right now I have several 2" thick 2’ x 4’ blue foam sections sitting next to the benchwork, waiting for me to make a decision about whether to continue using Mianne’s pre-fab benchwork or switch to Sievers. (Don’t even think about asking me to put together my own benchwork. I’m not in this hobby to become a carpenter. People have learned to keep power tools away from me. This also exempts me from using the cookie-cutter method, so I’m looking at using WS inclines and risers.)
Do I sound like an old curmudgeon?
You purists will get a kick out of this: I’m also using “sectional” track! Like one of the other correspondents here, I’ve tried EZ Track and UniTrack, and Kato gets the nod – it’s Code 83, n/s, and looks pretty good after I’ve spray-painted it brown [go ahead, cringe. I’m interested in running trains. This is called model railroading, right? Not model carpentry or model electrician or model painting or whatever else – although you can get as wrapped up in any of these as you want. That’s one of the great things about this hobby. I like running trains, sometimes even kinda like the prototype]. I like my railroad models to look good, but if my layout never makes the pages of RMC or MR, I couldn’t care less. (Although I enjoy seeing other peoples’ wonderful work.)
Don’t let me get on a rant here (with apologies to Dennis Miller), but the current craze for “prototypical realism” cracks me up. All
The best way for a person to build / model / operate / whatever is the way that works best for that person.
If they won’t bring back the ATSF, bring back the War Bonnet paint scheme! BNSF Wedgies, bah. [swg]
Randy, Murphy made USB. everytime you want to drill a hole it WILL hit the epoxy. Everytime you bore a whole for a Tortoise it will be at the place wher the bord will splinter and you must sand the whole. When you try and drill small holes for feeders Mr Murphy makes sure that the epoxy is there AND a lose piece so it is hard to get the wire in. Other than that no problems.[:D]
I’ve visited a couple of layouts in LaCrosse, Wisconsin and they used drywall or sheet rock as a base instead of plywood. The advantage of drywall over plywood is that it is not prone to changing dimensionally with humidity and it is much cheaper. I’m tempted to use it with my new layout.
Eric, Drywall and “Sheetrock” are common terms for what is gypsum wallboard, as I am sure most of us know. The gypsum plaster core is wrapped in heavy paper. Therefore, the product is susceptible to water damage (there are water-resistant - but not waterproof - types). It does not accept fasteners readily, and if the fastener is stressed by weight or movement, it will loosen sooner or later. That’s why fasteners such as mollies, toggles and expansion sleeves are used. It is also easily cracked by excessive weight or impact or relatively rough handling. In short, it is not terribly well-suited for layout platforms: be careful out there! I would be most interested to know how the examples you saw were accomplished successfully because it has so many disadvantages. Dante
George - I understand. Yeah, I haven’t used it as a base. It works great as dimensional lumber, however. Cheap, straight and strong.
Randy