I’m building a new layout. Is it necessary to have wood under the homosote.
I guess I need to know if sagging will happen after time.[bow]
In a word, Yes.
I recommend 3/4" plywood. Homasote is basically pressed paper and will sag almost immediately.
I use 3/8 plywood, but my joists are fairly closely spaced.
Considering where you are located, if your train room is not in an air-conditioned room, I’d avoid the homasote. It is dimensionally very unstable with humidity swings. I had a problem with expansion and contraction, so started using cork instead. I also started de-humidifying my basement in the summer. No more problems.
I cannot even consider th stuff…it is twice as much as plywood here in Maryland.
About the only ‘good’ characteristic I have read, many times here, is that Homasote is great for quiet rails. I think the other problems of humidity hyper-sensitivity ,with the consequent sag and rail deviations due to its expansion, are more compelling, so I would look for something else.
Thing is, all of those same positive characteristics (quiet rails, easy to work with, easy to lay track on, etc.) are available in foam, and none of the drawbacks.
Cost is usually cheaper too!
I know a fellow who has built his O scale 3 rail layout with only homasoate (no plywood) and supported it every 6-8" and he reports no problem with sagging.
I used 1/2 inch plywood under the homosote and have had no problems. I thought it was a bit more strong feeling then foam insulation, but have used both without any problems. Just be sure to support either from the bottom. I like overkill, so I braced every 16 inches.
The problem with any material that you use, is that once you ballast your track, you’re going to have some noise transmission. I like the cork, because 1) it’s easy to work with, 2) it already has an angled edge to it, making ballasting easy and 3) it’s not as susceptible to changes in humidity if you live in a part of the country where that’s a problem.
Gosh, if I supported even 1/4" plywood every 6-8", I would expect no sagging!
I believe that the cricisms of homasote have come from those who used it in early days and found that it had those problems: hard to drill, hard to work with, moisture sensitive, expands in all directions when moist, thus tending to rip apart or deviate your painstakingly laid track, and for those whose supports were much too wide, sagging.
I’m with pcarrell; foam is the answer, though it does seem somewhat noisy.
I’m almost of the mind to use foam stacks for the layout of the future, but overlay the railbed with a thin felt, or polar-fleece so that the rail noise is reduced. I just wish someone would try it and get back to me. [:D]
I would be concerned that I would forever be picking lint out of my gears if I used felt or fleece. I think you may be on to something though with this line of thought though!
Hey, I have an idea! Lets handlay our metal rails on real wood ties buried in small stones. It’ll have great looks, sound just like the real thing and…Oh wait, thats our prototype!
Nevermind! [8D]
There is one other difference people need to think about. Foam burns easily and gives off toxic fumes. Homosote is very flame resistant. People like my wife use it as a base to make up and solder stained glass pieces.
My corner module (the only one I have track on yet) uses a surplus 3X4 sheet of homosote as the base. The homosote is only supported at the perimeter and on 18 inch centers. No sagging yet. No track problems but the room is heated & air conditioned so I don’t expect any.
If anybody asks though my future modules will use foam. It is just to easy to sculpt. And it is cheaper. And it is lighter…
Prototype track is subject to heat expansion as much as the model is, why there are rail joints.
I have on film a really bad heat expansion on the Philadelphia transit line, which
totally whacked a short section of track.
I can live with homasote.
I have experimented with some alternative board, Hydrolite or whatever its name was, its pretty firm board and you can spike into it pretty well, and doesnt suffer expansion, but its not easy to find or get, its an insulation board.
I still seem to prefer Homasote.
Spikes stay in it.
I paint the homosote with latex paint after installing it but before laying track. I have found it extremely stable, and it is a delight to spike handlaid track on it. I highly recommend it. It is expensive from California Roadbed as compared if you make your own from a big sheet (which I would never contemplate doing myself.) It is worth the price.
I tried going the homosote route on an old layout and I didn’t have any sagging problems, but I had great support under it and it was a small layout. It was kind of difficult to find, and it was about the same price as good plywood when I did find it. The homosote was cut to shape cookie cutter style using a jig saw and several blades as they tend to dull quicker then usual. Then I had to seal the stuff with something so that the humidity didn’t affect it ( yes, yes, I know, hard to believe that we have humidity here in central Indiana [:D] ). This took two coats of paint because homosote is basically a paper product and as such soaks up the paint at a furious rate. After all this it was a usable product. Thats a lot of work if you ask me. Also, by the time you factor in the original price of the stuff, the saw blades, and all the paint it was kind of an expensive proposition.
This prompted me to look for a different solution on the next layout.
I am now working with 1/4 inch luan for subroadbed, 1/4 inch foam for roadbed, all supported on 12 inch centers. I know it sounds like it’s kind of light weight but it has great support (1x3’s set on edge), it only has to support the tracks (not the scenery, and I never have to park my butt on the layout), and it is N scale so the equipment is light. It also is now in a climate controlled room so humidity is not an issue. The stuff is quite reasonably priced and I can go from benchwork to ready to run trains in very little time. I just use the jig saw to cut out the sub roadbed and attatch it to risers. Then I take a piece of foam a little larger then the subroadbed and attatch it to the luan with some liquid nails (get the kind that doesn’t attack foam). Then I put some more liqid nails in top of the foam, smooth it out with a putty knife, and lay down the trackwork. put a couple of books on top of the tracks and go have dinner. A little while later you can run some trains (although it’s better if you wait overnight for the stuff
WELL!!! I LAMINATED 1/4 IN. LUAN TO MY HOMOSOTE AND HAVE 16 IN. ON CENTER JOISTS AND THERE IS NOT ANY EXPANSION OR CONTRACTION… USED CONTACT CEMENT… WORKS GREAT… THEN I USED CORK OR HOMOSOTE ROAD BED…
I used a Homasote-like product on top of 1/2" ply (supported 16-18") on a layout 25 years ago. It worked very well with my hand-laid track, even through moves from coastal Oregon (wild swings in humidity from fog to very dry and no A/C) to both coasts of Florida.
Am currently planning another small (4x6ft) or shelf layout (can’t decide), but want to keep weight down. My plan is to use Homasote on top of 2" foam supported on 16" or 2ft centers, then handlay track on the Homasote. I’m hoping gluing the Homasote to the foam will stabilize it sufficiently; will probably put on a coat of paint for the extra protection against moisture sensitivity. Would appreciate any comments on this plan.
I am thinking of using the Homasote on top of the 2" foam as well. but then roadbed would be the WS foam roadbed.
my question is will the track pins holding the track down go into the Homasote well and will the Homasote hold the pins so they dont lift up on their own?
thanks
Kevin
Humidity does NOT bother Homasote as much as it bothers wood. If there is any movement, it is the wood, not the Homasote that’s moving. We have done extensive testing with it, including fully submersed in a bucket to get these results.
Wood is the worst culprit for moisture unstability.
I have been using 3/4" plywood roadbed with cork but after visiting a very large and very nice running layout this spring I plan to use homasote SPLINE roadbed for the remaining rural type section of the layout (about 75’ of single track). The layout I visited this spring used 2" wide homasote strips screwed together with drywall screws (no glue) and was supported, get this, every 32"!!! No plywood!!!
The track was all handlaid and the engines were brass steam. I had one derailment in a several hour operating session and it was my fault. The humidity is controlled to range from 20 to 50 percent. I was very impressed. The yards were actually 3’ wide sections of spline homasote.
Phil Keppers
Duluth MN