Dave, do you know just what that grade really is on the “Slide”…?
not off hand but I’ll see if I can find out…
I just looked up a trackchart on the internet and it lists the average grade between the East Portals of the Tunnels, and Bennington Curve as 2.27%…but does not specify which trackage that that figure represents…Looking at another chart in the Triumph 1 Book, it lists the grade on the Slide as 2.36 while the trackage leading to the other tunnels is listed as 1.81…
…The grade of 1.8 seems to be a figure one finds most of the time for the long grade up from Altoona. We know it moderates a bit around the “Curve” and we also know it is quite a bit steeper coming out of the New Portage Tunnel…{hope that’s the correct one}, and onto the “Slide”…and heading down east side, so I’d suggest the 2.36 figure would be pretty close for that short stretch. I would have guessed it might be close to 3%…with all the caution and emphases put on it over the years…It looks steep when one sees it in a photo. I doubt if it is used much for “up hill” …west bound traffic.
Item: I wonder if that is the tunnel one travels through east bound on a passenger train…now Amtrak…I do remember one of the times traveling through there and heading down hill towards the Curve…it was announced our speed limit was 35 mph down that stretch of the route…Another item I often wonder about, thinking of train operation on that stretch of the route…How did the crews keep their freight trains…especially the heavy coal trains under possitive control {for sure}, with the operation of steam engines…and of course no dynamic braking power…Just brake shoes and air pressure…They surely must have been smoking badly as they reached Altoona…
The heavy coal trains coming down the mountain were sights to see even in the earlier diesel era, before extended range DBs. Several of my friends and I used to often go to the Curve while were at college at Penn State. That was when it was Penn Central. During the day the coal trains would leave a haze of smoke that would take a while to clear. But night time was the real show. Every wheel on the train would be circled by a ring of fire from the brake shoes. And long after the train was gone you could smell the burning metal from the cast iron shoes.
Amtrak uses either Track 1 down the Slide, or Track 2 through the Allegheny Tunnel depending on what traffic is ahead of it…In Steam days, crews often set retainers, or set handbrakes on a selected number of cars at the top before heading downgrade…If Amtrak heads down Track 1, it will usually cross over at MG or Slope to be onto the Track 2 Station side for its Altoona Station stop…Westbounds up the Slide are an extreme rarity…I saw a pic of such a movement done in the mid 1990’s…
I found the photo in question. Some of you will no-doubt think I’m a dumby at this point.[D)]. The photo is in U-Boats by Greg McDonnell. The caption reads, more or less: "…PRR 6502 and PC 6501 grind (west?) past MG Tower, just west of Horseshoe Curve…[:I]. The photo clearly shows a straight section of tracks, that curve off to the right at the far sight line. The crossovers are definately on the straight track. What is MG Tower? It’s location at the crossover area must be significant?
Okay…that is what I was thinking you saw…MG is short for Mid-grade Tower, and was built in 1944 to handle the glut of WW2 traffic…it is on a tangent stretch of track roughly 1.5-2 miles West of Horseshoe Curve…Crossovers at one time in the area all had tower operators to control them…The tower still stands nowadays, but is empty…the interlocking here, along with the vast majority of interlockings are remotely controlled from the Dispatcher’s Desk…Switches to certain sidings have to be hand thrown by the crews…The interlockings in the Altoona area, from SLOPE to ANTIS, are still controlled by the tower operator at ALTO tower…
…Setting retainers was a must in the operation down at Saluda, NC…{NS}, when it was still in operation…{The route is still in place yet but dormant}…As I understand it setting retainers hold brakes on until physically released at the bottom of the hill…
ok, since we are talking about Horseshoe, my grnadfather took me to altoona when i was 8 (12 now) and i remember seeing an old switch near the walk way to the amtrak station , was that used for the Loco works or as a derail track,
and, where in compairison is muleshoe to horseshoe? and also, i went to the portage railroad as well. was that the location that PRR used as a johnstwon bypass? er, you can correct me if you like, but i’m just trying to find the location of muleshoe and the new portage bed line.[:D]
That is my understanding of retainers also…
Which side of the tracks was that switch? On the Station Side, or Altoona Railroaders Museum side? The original Portage was the Inclined Plane version which was used also by the PRR before its section between Altoona and Johnstown was completed…The New Portage was also built by the State to replace those Planes…The Muleshoe is South of the Horseshoe Curve alignment…it actually runs across the Old 22 roadway where old 22 changes from 2 Lane to 4 Lane West of Duncansville…You will pass under a Stone arch bridge on a curve just before Old 22 spreads out to 4 Lanes…That bridge is the Muleshoe…
Here is a link to a site with some info on Horseshoe and Muleshoe Curves …scrolling down the page will yield some interesting photographs http://home.att.net/~Berliner-Ultrasonics/hshucrv4.html#muleshoe
Here is a Link to a Satellite view of Muleshoe Curve…scroll to see it in bottom half of page…Old Route 22(not to be confused with the newer 4 Lane 22 that connects to I99) can be plainly seen as it curves underneath and then splits to four lanes on its way toward Cresson…The Muleshoe is now a hiking trail as it was abandoned in 1981 http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.aspx?S=12&T=1&X=889&Y=5598&Z=17&W=2
dwil89: Roughly, where on the terraserver topo map would MG Tower be? Thanks
Murphy…MG tower location is about 1.5 to 2 mi. west of Horseshoe Curve…{upgrade} from H S.
Dave…Those are interesting web links you posted…Can follow pretty well what is being explained. Might add to the conversation that the “new” Rt. 22 does follow a bit of the old New Portage ROW down the hill a bit…{east}, until it bears off more to the right and towards it’s location going around Muleshoe.
The Terraserver Map is of Muleshoe Curve, not Horseshoe Curve…Muleshoe is roughly a dozen miles South of the more famous Horseshoe Curve…it is along the line of the State owned New Portage Line…If you follow the roadbed to the right and where it disappears in the top right of the map, the line is headingout of view toward the Summit where it eventually meets the Pennsy Main several hundred yards East of the Summit Tunnels…The New Portage made a very hard turn to the left once it reached the area of the East Portals, and then paralleled the Pennsy Main through the Mountain with some separation…
Here is another Terraserver pic of the Altoona Horseshoe Curve…One can say that the State imitated the PRR when it built the Muleshoe Curve Line a dozen or so miles to the South of the Pennsy Line and its Altoona Horseshoe Curve, and then built a Summit Tunnel almost right next to the Pennsy Tunnels…The Pennsy would have the final word, when it bought out the State owned line in the mid 1800’s …Conrail finally abandoned the Muleshoe Curve Line around 1981…In this pic,MG would be somewhere around the bottom of the page in the area of the ‘South’ arrow http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.aspx?S=12&T=1&X=892&Y=5607&Z=17&W=2
Yes…New 22 heads up through the Valley with the ex-Pennsy on the right as you head uphill and the New Portage roadbed on the left…part of the New Portage right of way was obliterated by the new 22 alignment, as once the top of the hill was reached, the New Portage crossed the valley over to the Pennsy side to the area of the Tunnels. As you head downhill Eastward toward Altoona, looking toward the NS ex-Pennsy side, you can see where it suddenly veers away out of view from Rte 22…about a half mile or so from where it veers out of view of 22 is where MG is…