Presently I have two out-and-back reverse loops in an attic space on the other side of a wall of my train room. Although from time to time a train is left out there overnight, sometimes for a day or two, I’m thinking of expanding the attic area to include a larger staging yard. My question is: are there any long term problems leaving trains parked out there for extended periods? Minimum winter temps here are in the low twenties and the maximum observed summer temp is 115F. The only problem I’ve ever had is that really cold locomotives are a bit sluggish until they have been running for a few minutes. Any guidance appreciated. Thanks.
If you have old trains, this should be no problem. If you have trains with DCC, the expanding and contracting of the connections on the circuit boards will eventually break some of the solder joints.
When I buy an new computer, it clearly says on the box to allow the box to come to room temperature for two or more hours before opening. This is because condensation can form and cause problems.
We bought a new 100 HP (commercial) gas boiler. When we first lit it up there was enough water running onto the floor that one would think that the boiler was leaking. No, it is just condensate and the installer put buckets at each corner of the boiler to catch this water.
Ergo: Temperature changes can be significant.
ROAR
Mom had an old “Piano Warmer” inside of her piano, the idea was that it should keep the piano in tune through changes in relative humidity.
What you might look into is this wire warmer of the sort that people put on their roofs to prevent ice jams. Put this under the sub roadbed and see if that will keep the trains warm enough to park there without having to heat or remodel the whole attic. Put it on a thermostat (if it is not built into the device) to shut it off when the temperatures get above 40.
My cats live out doors all winter (and this in North Dakota) but I built them a cat house, and inside I put a heating pad, and put it under a 3/4" board. The cats stay toasty warm without getting burned, so I think something like this may be your best bet.
ROAR
I can see all sorts of potential problems with installing heating elements under model right-of-way, ranging from the disastrous (hot wires make things catch on fire!) to the frustrating (the wiring in the heating elements are subject to the same environmental forces as the track, leading to broken connections in the system) in return for what would probably be a very minimal benefit. Or you could just follow prototype practice and wire jumpers between track sections in order to ensure electrical continuity, or recommended model railroad practice and wire power feeders to each track section, in order to make expansion/contraction less of an issue. Or insulate the train room…
The sluggishness is likely due to the cold grease in the gearboxes. The low temps may not be as big an issue as the high temps for the electronics. Look at the specs. for your home computer and use that as a guideline. I have seen electronic failures in items stored in our uninsulated attic. Folks around here (NW OH) use light bulbs in their outdoor water well enclosures to keep pipes from freezing in the winter, but they usually have an insulated box cover over them also. Condensation is still a big issue for you to deal with.
I also feel that any extreme cold ( cold enough that you’re not confortable to be in the attic) shouldn’t really do any harm. However, continued extreme heat (90+ degrees), could have all sorts of serious consequences to the elec, plastic over time. Running an electric heater for your comfort in winter ( would not run unattended though), and installing a thermostatically controlled attic exhaust fan would be a good idea to move some of the summer temps. These attic fans are a good idea to use even if trains are not in the attic. I have installed dozens of these units to control both heat and humidity in attics. They are quite beneficial as indoor room temps can be dropped up to 15-20 degrees ( especially 2nd floors) makes the house that much more comfortable and saving on AC costs. There are both gable and roof models.
Also, when finishing off any attic space, and insulating between the rafters, only use the appropriate insulation thickness to match rafter size and allowing for styrofoam baffles (Rafter Mate) to allow air movement under roof sheathing. Air circulation in the rafter bays is crucial to stop any condensation/ mold issues. This does work best w/ ridge venting and soffit vents, but soffit vents along w/ high mount gable venting will suffice. Most codes in cold climes call for R30, however, 2x6 or 2x8 rafters commonly used will only allow for use of up to R23 6".
The heating elements that the LION is thinking of would never get much above 100°
Expansion and contraction is an issue for circuit boards.
ROAR
Put simply, if it’s not comfortable for you, it’s not cmfortable for the trains. The mechanisms and shells might come through with no problems, but what about othr stuff, liek scenic elements adn roadbed? This is pretty much wha the attic in my Mom’s house is like, even with a powered vent fan we installed later on. Boiling hot in summer, outside temp in winter, and along with that, massive changes in humidity. Trains were stored there, adn even after many years, they were still fine, the plastic hadn’t cracked, and powered units still ran fine. But scenery elements and leftover pieces of cork roadbed - completely worthless.
Consider also that if the room is comfotable for you to be in, you’re not going to want to work on the layout or run trains. Less is more - a smaller layout in a more friendly environment will go a long wy towards keeping you interested.
–Randy
My entire layout space has the same temperature issues your attic has, except for humidity (which is usually single digit.) Since I don’t have any on-board electronics I haven’t suffered any problems with same.
If you are running DCC, I would suggest that you box in your staging yard, where trains might be left standing. Put a sloped cover on the box and install a low-temperature heater (or a couple of incandescent light bulbs) inside it, with a thermostatic switch as suggested. The sloped cover (about 30 degrees) will discourage leaving things stacked on it.
For summer, a small hole in your train room wall, a bathroom-type vent fan and a couple of feet of dryer duct would allow you to blow conditioned air under the cover and help your decoders keep their cool. The only possible problem would be the minor gale at the entrance and exit track portals.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - in a Southern Nevada garage)
Great information, folks, thanks. Indeed, I didn’t mean to focus on the low temps, but the high. Yes, all locos are DCC equipped so chips were on my mind. The roadbed and related components have never been a problem. In the attic area the track is fastened to plain old 3/4" plywood with DAP acrylic adhesive/caulk with nary a problem. I use Atlas snap switches for turnouts and again, they are as reliable as the sun rising. The humidity ranges I’ve observed run from about 20% to 97%. At the joints (trackwise as well as structure wise) in the attic near the wall I have left expansion joints which have worked well for three years so far. So in summary, my concern is mainly to do with how decoders, motors and such will fair over time in the heat. Again, the cold effects are always solved by simply getting the trains running for a few minutes before beginning any (computerized) operations. (Kinda’ like me, the retiree.)[:)]