I’m inspired by Cisco Kid’s post “Beginner at Wiring” to post this shot. I’ve just started installing and wiring the LEDs for my control panel. I’m using Peco motors so I need a relay for the LEDs.
On the left is the relay, on the right the momentary on-off switch
The relay has:
Black: -12VDC, loop through to next relay
Yellow: +12VDC, loop through to next relay
Blue: 2 hook-up wires to the switch poles
Bare: LED positives (two LEDS are on at the same time - eventually there will be a third one for the diverging route)
Green: LED negatives via resistor
The switch has:
Red: Capacitor discharge unit positive, loop through to next switch
Pink & White: to turnout motor
And I’ve got 32 to wire!! It’s not very neat at the moment, but I figure that by number 32 it’s gonna look great!
I know exactly what you’re going through. Sometimes I wish that I had the equipment to fabricate PC boards to solder these toggle switches, relays, LEDs, etc. to, and just have an edge connector to fool with.
This is why Tortoise motors are SO much better than snap-action solenoids. You need TWO toggles for every turnout there, plus the contacts and resistors for the LEDs. If you had Tortoises, you would use ONE toggle and the LEDs, no resistors or any extras.
With Peco turnouts? Electrofrog? DCC? If the answer to all of these is yes, I have a circuit design for you that will not need the relays, and greatly reduce that lot o’ of wiring.
IMHO, the Tortoise is superior in every way that matters from the noisy, clunky, Peco solenoid. They even make the Atlas turnout a viable alternative to Peco.
Advantages over PL-10’s
easier to mount
no huge hole under the switch machine to deal with at balast time
quiet, no more Bzzzzzzt
smooth prototypical action
much easier and simpler to wire (less wire and connections to solder)
with DCC the Wrabbit/Hare make hassle of turnout installation go quietly away
takes 1/3 the time to install
I did 10 Atlas/Tortoise/Hare installations with LED’s in less than a third the time it took me to wire 12 Peco/PL-10/PL-13/LS150 and the cost for the Atlas/Tortoise/hare was within a buck or two difference.
The only drawback to the Tortoise is that you cannot ‘manually’ change the switch position with your finger.
For what it is worth, this is just my experience, your milage will vary, I am a lead foot.
[#ditto] The Tortoise is the only way to go. They may seem more expensive, but in the long run they’re far more dependable and, as mentioned above, simpler. I’ve got about a hundred of them, some purchased used off eBay, and haven’t had a problem. And they’re guaranteed for 9 years!
145 of them all perfect. Some are run by the Digitrax DS52 and others with a DPDT. I used a Bicolor (Randy R’s Idea) to indicate and makes a nice easy (4) wire installation. Then you add the wires for FROGS and other things you want the Tortoise to control. They just do not fail.
While I agree the stall motors and specifically tortoise are great. And I agree that wiring them in this way is very simple. There is just one minor flaw with this scheme. Just like in Jurassic Park (the book not the movie) it is indicating the control setting, not feedback from item being controlled. It is also true that in 99.99% of the cases this is not a problem, especially in something non-critical like a model railroad, I just think one should be aware of the situation.
Since it is icy outside today I just thought of another example. A speedometer that is controlled from the transmission. It might say the car is going 45 mph. but since the tires are spinning on the ice the vehicle is really only going 1 mph. If one is in the car they know this. If it is being controlled it remotely the operator thinks it is going 45 mph. It is mistakes in control systems like this that make Mars surface vehicles do strange things.
If you do decide to go with the Peco motors, they make attachments for them which provide the contact closures you are looking for. Yeah, they’re a few extra bucks, but probably cheaper than the relays, or close. They mount right on the switch machine. This is good for signals, of course, but like the Tortoise, if you are using them for panel indicators then you’ve got to run additional wires back from the turnout to the control panel for your LEDs.
A little bit along the same lines of what you’re doing here. But I’m going about a few tests first before I got the relay route you’ve chosen.
I just purchased a few slide switchs, reed switchs and some other misc. stuff from mouser.
The goals : Use the position of the small peg on my atlas turnouts to determine what direction they are in
Method 1: Mount a small “super magnenet” to the top of the turnout peg, have a SPDT or 2 SPST reed switchs, depending on what reed switch is triggered will tell what led to go on / off (green / red).
Method 2: mount a small feed wire onto the peg that moves a slider switch the same way the peg moves.
I know I’ll have some issues and it will be a good week before the parts come in but I’m curious to know if folks think the ideas are sound.
I couple things I’ve tried to confirm is the peg movement is strong enough trigger another switch so long as the switch is “soft to the touch” (slides very easy). The magnant menthod I’d rather not do but I’m nearly certain it will work.
The nice thing about all this is the parts have only been about $15.00 USD for 5 of my atlas turnouts assuming of course this all works
So True. The ONLY Bullet proof way is the DS54 from Digitrax feeding back to a CTC via Loconet. Then you have the Facia LED AND the Lamps on the CTC that react to the signal from Loconet. THe output of the Tortoise then would light a Dwarf at the turnout that shows a Mechanical Movement of the turnout. If you have seen this CTC photo SORRY but it is to show the feedback from the DS54.
Actually - that IS how the speedometer works in a car. Luckily nowadays the engine control computer compares the speeds registed by the ABS sensors and can see that not all 4 wheels are moving the same speed and either transfer power or cut power.
But witht he LEDs in series witht he Tortoise - there IS feedback. The LEDs are dim while the Tortoise is in motion, and brighten when it stalls. That’s more feedback than anythign you could do with a twin-coil switch motor short of putting microswitches against the throwbar of the turnout - which you could do with a Tortoise or any other switch motor just as easily. And then - what if the point rail becaumes unstuck from the throwbar? The throwbar moves and pushes the microswitch but the point is still open because the rail if flop
We have just begun to scratch the surface of the possibilities of feedback information. I had not even thought about feed back from stationary decoders. However I would contend that Digitrax isn’t the ONLY way. I mean we have the DCC feedback standard now and it will probably win out over the Digitrax system in the long run. What is it called, RailCom? Not because its better but because it is standard. I mean look how quickly DCC displaced all the other command control systems. It was not necessarily the best - just the standard.
I agree, what I am stating is that SO FAR it is bullet proof. If there is a better mouse trap I an all ears. I only have 38 of 152 turnouts on CTC as of now. A better way is always welcome.
Thanks for the “ONLY” dare. Digitraxx is not the center of the earth, it is in Kansas fellows! (My apology to our friends outside the US, it is an American thing.)
Hare (Tortoise ) with feedback, ever hear of it?
LR101 Feedback Module from Lenz, ever hear of it?
CTI Sentry feedback module, ever hear of it?
These are only the other feedback components I know work, thanks for telling me that Digitraxx is a me too.
Please, the Digitraxx is the ONLY way is offensive. It reminds me of the experts who pushed MS Word so hard they killed the best word processor made at the time, Word Perfect.
OK Joe, breathe slowwly, that’s it, deep breaths, count backwards. . .
