One of the things mentioned in response to my recent attempts to get my head round the rail geography of Chicago was hot metal (torpedo/bottle/etc) car trains. I have done some looking and these appear interesting…
Short question is: “What can you tell me to lighten my (near complete) darkness please”? Anything and everything please. So far I’ve mostly found pics… they pique my interest but don’t tell me much more.
Complicatedquestions are:-
Are they run under special rules?
Are they run as high/wide/heavy/special loads?
Do they have / have to have a caboose?
Can they run any time? On a strict schedule or ad-hoc as extras?
Are they restricted from passing other trains - such as passenger trains or tank cars?
Do they have to run point-to-point or can they be shuffled about some? (I know that they have to get to destination with a hot load before it stops being hot enough to pour out of the car)
Do they get prioritised? (So that they can get to destination before cooling).
Are empty returns dealt with differently?
Do they ther-and-back or circuit work?
Do they have special requirements - such as at Grade crossings… are they allowed over public Grade crossings?
Do they have specific power requirements? Like extra power to make sure they will not conk out en route?
Are they speed limited?
Is there a maximum number of cars in a movement? Loaded?
Very cool photos!!! I knew that they put a flat car or gondola between the loco and the hot car for a single…but now I see they put a separator car in between hot cars as well. I’ve been past the metal works in Gary Indiana many times…on Amtrak and driving on the turnpike. I’ve always wanted to see about shooting photo/video on one of the plant sites.
If they are, they are run under local general orders. For example the current UP has no instructions specificaly for bottle cars in its special instructions, nor did the 1966 Reading railroad which operated through an area know for steel mills…
Are they run as high/wide/heavy/special loads?
Most likely no, most likely they are just intraplant switch moves.
Do they have / have to have a caboose?
Intraplant no.
Can they run any time? On a strict schedule or ad-hoc as extras?
They would have to run at the furnace’s schedule,
Are they restricted from passing other trains - such as passenger trains or tank cars?
Since there are no instructions, there would be no restrictions.
Do they have to run point-to-point or can they be shuffled about some? (I know that they have to get to destination with a hot load before it stops being hot enough to pour out of the car)
Enough to get the cars in the train and spotted.
Do they get prioritised? (So that they can get to destination before cooling).
Whatever priority the switch crew has or the locals want to give the train.
Do they have special requirements - such as at Grade crossings… are they allowed over public Grade crossings?
Don’t know of any reason why they would not.
Do they have specific power requirements? Like extra power to make sure they will not conk out en route?
I rather doubt it.They are probably moving at most a few miles so even if the engines died they would have other engines in the area.
I read in the employee time tables of the CSS or IHB some special instructions and rules for that kind of freight. They had at least route and speed restrictions. Also the use of flat car for protection is described.
And that would make sense since they (like the CSS or IHB) would be the short line switching carrier that would be switching the plant, like the Union RR previously mentioned or the PBNE that is shown handling bottle cars in the film clip on the Philadephia thread currently on the forum. The hot metal trains are all short moves between different parts of steel mills, they are switching moves rather than road haul moves.
The move past Dolton Jct. used to be a Conrail move. Last time I was down there (1994-ish), the tower at Dolton was manned by a Conrail operator, and his main mission was to get the bottle train through with a minimum of delay.
Once the cars are loaded, they have a short time to get to the other plant before the load cools down too much to pour out.
I’m sure there are speed restrictions on the train. Wouldn’t want the load to slosh out.
Check with a IHB or CSS group out there. I have seen one of the moves out in Gary and I remember seeing a speed restriction somewhere of 15 or 25 but I am sorry i cant recall it.They are a priority switch move and supposedly if they are close on time they will hold everything else to get it through. Like someone else said you have to dump em before they cool too much.
Dave is right about being rare cars. Very few in the US and like posted its in areas where steel mills are. If you do model some I would love to see pictures.
Probably to distribute load - 6 and 8 axle cars are going to be heavy. When the big centre depressed cars run in pairs or more they are often spaced by gons or flats.
Safety. The same as spacer cars are used between loco and some tank cars… although between tank and tank would be unusual - to the extent of almost never.
Safety again (maybe) so that if any one hot metal car is involved in an incident it will be less likely for a second car to be involved at the same time.
Gons or flats would be better for being able to see the cars from the loco or a caboose if one is used. The steel industry is also somewhat more likely to have flats or gons floating around than anything else. I wouldn’t use an LPG tank car! [:O]
Does it have couplers, brake hoses and round wheels? They would make an initial answer of “yes”.
However… is it an internal steelworks car or all stencilled up for road use? If it complies with the requirements it could be used out on main track.
Then there is a question of whether it would be more in demand to do its designed job. Coke cars are fairly rare and specialised while gons and flats are pretty common. So using a specialised car is not impossible but less likely.
From what I’ve seen slag cars are internal use only. Run between the smelter and wherever they are tipped.I don’t recall ever seeing one out on RR track of any kind. I doubt that they would even be allowed out when working. I imagine that the frame car might be allowed on RR track when being delivered new or moved between works - running without the crucible in them. The crucibles might travel (probably inverted) on flat cars. NOTE: I have not seen this though… it’s just a logical supposition. Again I would suspect that maintenace would almost all be done within the steel works… but the car(s) without crucible might travel to the nearest car works for things that the steelworks couldn’t do themsleves - don’t know what these would be… Gives a logical excuse for a special movement though.
To answer the actual question… the pics I have seen have sometimes had a bariier of cars between the loco and the slag cars but I’ve not seen them between cars.
Thinking about the spacer cars out on the road a bit more it has occurred to me that they might also be there to provide additional brake force.
To explain this… 1st I don’t know if it is a US practice at all… but we used to do it…
A train has to operating considerations that apply to this… one is to have a power to weight ratio to allow the train to be shifted at appropriate speeds. The other is a weight to brake force ratio. (I’m sure someone else can explain this more technically). If you have two locos with ten fully loaded cars you get one brake force ratio. Add a bunch of braked cars with no load and the ratio changes… more force to less load in the totals. The change allows a train to be worked at higher speed. We u