How do concreat ties hold the rail in place?

[Railway_Man]

The bearing (weight-carrying) ability of steel ties in conventional ballasted track construction is highly dependent on how good the track gang is at getting the ballast tamped up into that space underneath - otherwise, the steel tie is resting on its tips only, and will quickly penetrate down into the ballst and “pump” under traffic.

… which no one seems to succeed at …

With these shapes, steel ties are not too different from wood or concrete ties in that they also have a fairly large near-vertical plane (although nowhere as deep), and so will resist the longitudinal sliding/ running/ temperature displacement fairly well. However - and perhaps this is what you had in mind - steel ties won’t resist the lateral/ alignment displacement very well at all, due to those smooth side. That’s one reason why the versions made by Bethlehem Steel Co. had the ends curved or bent down - to dig in and provide a better anchor against movement in that direction.

… but a pig with lipstick is still a pig.

RWM

[Railway_Man]

…and now you begin to see why railroaders get frustrated with dumb highway people and gyppo contractors trying to put round river run gravel in the track structure. (it’s not hard enough either)

I wouldn’t want to say that non-railroaders never know what they’re doing about railroad engineering, operations, or commercial reality, but if I had been keeping score it would look like that 100-0 score in that Dallas girl’s basketball game last week.

(Feeling especially beat-up undoing the damage at a Class 1 by the highway types this morning, Mud.)

RWM

[mudchicken]

…and now you begin to see why railroaders get frustrated with dumb highway people and gyppo contractors trying to put round river run gravel in the track structure. (it’s not hard enough either)

(Feeling especially beat-up undoing the damage at a Class 1 by the highway types this morning, Mud.)

RWM

Somehow that sounds like there would be more than just railroad liabity at stake. Not good. (and I was grumpy because of a severely lowballed project proposal won out over ours. I think I’l be grateful now and watch some clowns at Brand X get sued or go broke when that project starts. Chad Thomas can bring the popcorn.)

[Deggesty]

I’ve never examined switches laid on concrete ties, and the thought came to me before I began reading the thread: are concrete ties molded to fit the various turnouts used; that is, are the ties molded so that the diverging rails are moved apart by the shoulders on the ties, with the length of the ties increasing as they are laid farther from the points? And, would you have one set of ties for a turnout for one speed and another set for a turnout for another speed? I may have phrased my questions badly, but I hope you understand what I am asking.

Johnny

[Railway_Man]

I’ve never examined switches laid on concrete ties, and the thought came to me before I began reading the thread: are concrete ties molded to fit the various turnouts used; that is, are the ties molded so that the diverging rails are moved apart by the shoulders on the ties, with the length of the ties increasing as they are laid farther from the points? And, would you have one set of ties for a turnout for one speed and another set for a turnout for another speed? I may have phrased my questions badly, but I hope you understand what I am asking.

Johnny

Concrete tie turnouts are 100% custom for the # of the frog, type of frog, type of turnout (e.g., movable point frog), size of rail, type of resilient fastener, etc. And in a given concrete-tie turnout, almost every tie is unique, because the shoulders are cast in place at the correct location.

There’s an active debate whether you’re better off with concrete-tie turnouts in concrete-tie track, or wood-tie turnouts in concrete-tie track. A derailment on a concrete-tie turnout isn’t pretty. With a wood-tie turnout you can always take a long tie and saw it to length and drill for the fasteners and the jewelry, but if you break a concrete tie in a turnout, you will be replacing it with an identical tie. If you don’t have one at your fingertips, you have a real problem.

RWM

[Deggesty]

Thanks, RWM.

Johnny