Lot of chit-chat, drinking cafinated drinks, sometimes I listen to some music at a low level that allows me to tap my foot to a tune and still able to listen to my engineer and radio chatter. I also get up and walk around the cab, clean up the cab if the jerk(s) left if messy before me, make weird noises. I do anything to stay awake and I usually just have a lot of energy, but there’s something about staying awake between 2am and 4:30am that’s dang near impossible!!! That’s one reason I like working in the yard because I’m on my feet walking around and using my brain to think of new ways to switch.
I’m not an engineer, but I had the same problem as a night-time line-haul trucker, with no-one to converse with or back me up if I dozed off. I felt it was kind of important to stay awake. I found turning on the dome light for a few minutes worked wonders. And I would be alert for quite a while even after I turned it off. If things got real bad, I’d douse myself with my water bottle (but not too near the end of the trip, or my dispatcher would say “eweeuuu, what happened to you?” when I’d walk in all wet. But NOTHING worked as well as actally dozing off for a few seconds, snapping to, and when I would realize what had just happened, it would scare me so bad I’d be wide awake for the rest of the way home (no joke). Certainly a dangerous situation, and the least desireable solution but an effective one! [8D]
Also, it doesn’t seem to matter how well rested you are, humans seem to always get drowsy around sun-up. Has to do with our body rythums…
From personal experience, my body gets tired of boredom so it interprets that as wanting to sleep. As soon as I start moving about or engage in something intellectually stimulating, I’m wide awake and ready to go.
I have had more than enough sleep when this has happened. As long as I’m doing something that requires the brain to work and not allow it to be a vegatable, my body is alert and I’m very energetic. There is physical tired and than their is mental tired; neither of which are fun to get.
What happens if the engineer has to use the bathroom?
It’s a fact that those wee-hours of the morning are the hardest to stay awake.
It has to do with circadian rhythms.
As Fuzzyfocus touched on, those hours are when the body temperature is at it’s lowest in the 24 hour cycle.
Quite often it’s happened to me where I have pulled all-nighters, and that 3-5am window is always the hardest one to pull-through and stay awake during. Lots of times, though, once the sun is starting to rise and my body temperature is also increasing I suddenly feel more alert and awake, though groggy.
Most people mistake this as a “Second Wind” when in reality all that is happening is your morning rise in body temperature.
Yes there is a difference between being mentally and physically tired, but if at any point you are “bored” and as a result falling asleep, you are sleep deprived
if thier isnt anything that needs to be done right away…such as blow for a crossing… or some kind of throttle or brake change… as soon as you hit the alerter…you know you have at least 30 seconds…if not longer to go take a leak…and if worse comes to worse…you have the conductor hit it for you…now as far as makeing a personal setoff… you can stop the train on the main and do it…and thier isnt a thing that they can do to you… since only a certified engineer is “allowed” to run the engin…if the need should come that you cant hold it any longer… you just stop the train and do what you have to do…
csx engineer
You mean you don’t have a pause button?[:D]
This brings up a few questions: what is the conductor doing most of the time while on the road? Are they fighting to stay awake too or do they just snooze? Do conductor and engineers help each other to stay awake[?]
cpbloom,
The conductor is just as responsible for staying awake and paying attention to signals, radio chatter, and what lies ahead as the engineer. However, there are a lot of cases where the conductor will just snooze away and let everything fall on the engineer. Obviously these conductors are not well liked by engineers, but it is more common than you’d think. Luckily, several of these conductors have gotten themselves fired for attendance/disciplinary reasons. I guess If you regularly snooze you probably don’t do much else right either. I’m talking about conductors who fall asleep a few miles from home and sleep all the way to Chicago, and then have to be awakened to perform a double. Everybody nods off, and it’s quite normal, but then there are those who just blatently fall asleep and don’t care. A good conductor does his damnest to keep his engineer awake. Our safety depends on at least of one of us being alert; and our odds are much better if both are awake.
Iit seems interesting that the emphasis put on safety, such as at NS, for example, as far as the well rested part, conflicts with the basic operation of the RR. Irregular hours, crews being called for next assignment shortly after hitting the sack…I am surprised that there are as relatively few sleep-related accidents as there are. Sleep is a basic human need…Having to guzzle soft drinks, keep the window open…etc, is only buying time…eventually the odds will win out in some way. Dave Williams http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nsaltoonajohnstown
I you all really want to be scared, consider the same question for airliner crews on almost any long night time flight – particularly trans-Atlantic or trans-Pacific. There isn’t a dang thing to do in the front office for what seems like hours, and the computer is doing all the flying for you. And a modern airliner cockpit is remarkably quiet and peaceful. It can get real boring up there, real fast.
Crews have been known to snooze…
Of course, if things go wrong, they can go really wrong really fast, too – and if you’ve been snoozing, those 10 seconds it takes to wake up can see a very interesting situation develop!
Crystal meth…or watch a movie on your laptop…or play a game…talk on your cell phone…or text message. At this very moment there’s prolly several hundred railroaders making their way down the tracks completely asleep. If your familiar with the territory and don’t sleep too deeply and your engineer is one that you regularly work with…you can sleep…the world doesn’t stopy on its axis. Oh, its not ideal and its completely and horrifically unsafe…but it happens every day as it has happened for decades. How many trips do you think have been made where the conductor (or the engineer for that matter) was asleep from one end of the division to the other? An engineer and conductor married up month after month, year after year get very accustomed to each other and know what to expect. Some trade off running the engine while the other rests his eyes…on a 260 mile district there’s a whole lot of ground to cover and easily not a lot of time sitting at any one place to get a nap in. Like many are familiar with, working on your rest for weeks at a time, or months, leaves both engineer and conductor exhausted. Most engineers if they don’t need the conductor to keep them awake or what-not completely understand that if your near-death and sitting over there without much to do sleep is going to happen…and someone might as well be getting it. It really depends mostly on the individual. Personally, even when I’ve been up for 50 hrs straight I can sleep a couple hours on the train while moving but thats about it. The rest of the time your just brain-fried yet awake. Some guys can sleep anywhere and given the chance would sleep 4-5 hrs dead to the world.
Illegal narcotics?!?!
As an airline pilot, flying all night is not usually a problem. However, when the sun comes up and you are heading East, look out. It’s coffee time (I hate the stuff) or NoDoz which is just caffeine.
I would have swapped a cockpit ride for a train cab ride, but after 9/11 I have trouble getting into my own flight.
As a trucker I am familiar with the problem of the clock . You will sleep between 3-6 AM. If you try to stay up for days at a time withing 4 days you will go to sleep regardless of what you want or not.
Grab naps in dead times. Try to talk to the dispatcher to find out ahead of time if the load will be slow in coming. If there is a lumper taking care of your load for 6 hours. Sleep. You will need it.
If that rig is stopped in a safe place (Legal parking space is best) for any length of time sleep.
The best solution I found was Team Driving with the wife. I would put away 600 miles and trust the wife to fini***he next 600 by the end of the 24 hour period. We would keep up the LA to NYC several times a week for a month at a time non stop. Occasionally one of us will get tired and cannot drive safe.
Apples (real apples not juice) provides you a kick. A hershey bar also. Salsa and chips in moderation is a treat. Knowing what to eat when helps alot.
There is only one time I have had been scared with the need to sleep and that was in the region between Las Vegas and Reno where there is literally nothing to see. It is much easier to stay awak between Richmond and Savannah GA where the constant traffic and changing “problems” makes it easier to run.
But the warning signs are “spins” “Dreams” and waking up when you hit the state line and recording the mileage wondering what happened to wyoming? (350 miles of no recall due to sleep)
What is interesting is that I can literally be on alert for hours and hours in a computer game against other people on the internet at a moment’s notice ready to shoot the opponet. When nothing is happening such as waiting at a pot stop signal for 10 minutes on the train simulator…zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
I agree with you on that also Siuth Dakota is about the most boring state along with Texas on 10 west of San Antiono
Im a driver for Virgin Trains here in the U.K. We have a Drivers Vigilence Device. A pedal on the floor that we have to keep depressed.If we lift our feet up it beeps and if we dont depress it again within around 3 seconds the train comes to an emergency stop.Also it beeps around every 3 minutes and again we lift our feet up and put them down within 3 seconds or we come to an emergency stop.This device came about after the deadmans pedal or Drivers Safety Device over here was found to be o.k with a brick on it because all you had to do was keep it depressed and you were o.k , so im told ( not speaking from experience here, just word of mouth you understand).
Im a driver for Virgin Trains here in the U.K. We have a Drivers Vigilence Device. A pedal on the floor that we have to keep depressed.If we lift our feet up it beeps and if we dont depress it again within around 3 seconds the train comes to an emergency stop.Also it beeps around every 3 minutes and again we lift our feet up and put them down within 3 seconds or we come to an emergency stop.This device came about after the deadmans pedal or Drivers Safety Device over here was found to be o.k with a brick on it because all you had to do was keep it depressed and you were o.k , so im told ( not speaking from experience here, just word of mouth you understand).