In any given situation are engineers given discretion on speed or are there rigid speed limits to follow?
Speed limits are in the time table, when you become a conductor this is a item you will learn because if the engineer is speeding you will be fired also. its not just a engineer thing. from straight line running to turn outs thru sidings dark territory and yard limits all have differant speed limits, and in the ns your given 10% ( not to speed just if you flash over to get it down) up to max speed then it goes to 5%.
That’s interesting thanks. Why are the speeds in a timetable…why are they not posted?
They are if you know what to look for, usually a small sign on a post with numbers on it. Says 15, 40 or 60 or something simlar, problem is that signs get taken down for MOW work and sometimes dont get put up again, so the limits posted in the timetable and the conductors knowledge of the route become the governing rule.
This is a typical sign, the upper speed is for passenger trains, the lower for frieght
The Railroads use HO scale signs??? [:P]
And some speed signs have two speeds…with letter before them F and P the F speed for freight and P for passenger
And you would not believe how hard it is to spot them! [;)]
Sometimes signs are posted, sometimes not. That’s why you have to know your territory. Even if they are posted, they mark where you are authorized to be doing that speed, so if you’re going faster you need to know where to start slowing down so you’re on the spot when you pass the sign.
We have an added problem in the midwest. For some reason hunters think our signs any sign and switchstands as well) are deer and shoot at them.
Gotta know the territory. Once your " qualified" you should be able to know all your permanent speed restrictions without notes.
Signs can be shot, covered in paint, “collected”, run over, or otherwise rendered unusable. A timetable is required to be in your possession. What’cha gonna look at? Of course you’re qualified on this line, so you don’t really need either one, right?
So now that you have a timetable to give you your maximum speed at any given location on this line you’re familiar with, they give you special instructions that chip the speeds down. Equipment restrictions, temperature restrictions, TPOB restrictions, fuel conservation restrictions, and on and on.
Then you get your track bulletins. More slowdowns, usually more or less temporary in nature, together with people to call to make sure you can move through some areas at all.
So now, let’s improve velocity![(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D] And watch out for weed weasels.
Interesting thread.
Below are links to pix of speed limit signs for BNSF rails. Top one is in Strong City, KS, bottom is in Burlington, IA.
http://alextherailfan.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=830005
http://alextherailfan.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1119267
Engineers of today have an advantage that not all engineers of some eighty and more years ago had–they have speedometers. I have a Southern employee timetable from the twenties that gives, in the schedule portion, the minimum time that may be taken between the stations. Also, my father’s 1922 edition of The Locomotive Up To Date has a Speed Table–you use it to determine how fast to run from one point to another when you know the distance and the time you should take. It’s much easier to know how fast to run when you know the speed limitations and you have a speedometer you can trust. The book does not mention speedometers, but it does have a description of a speed recorder, which recorded speed, distance traveled, and number and location of stops made.
Speedometers are based of mechanics of the locomotive, they can lie… badly.
Any trainman will tell you that a measured mile is your best friend if you have ANY doubt about speed.
We were having trouble with the speedometer in one of our locomotives. I loaned the head mechanic my GPS…
the speed recorder is are speedometer. that is what us southern guys still call it today. and the minimum time is only a guide, if the dispatcher told us to get there we got there. all units on line 8 and sand. now a days you say you say its easier to have a speed recorder to trust…ROFLMAO there is not a NS speedometer that is accurate. the only speedrecorders that ive seen that are accurate are the UP engines In rereading what you said there is times on certain trains we use the second hand of are watch to measure time and distance to know are speed today.
Plus SOP - “Seat Of Pants” methods, and years of experience. Some really good old heads can cover the speedometer/ speed recorder - esp. on their favorite or regularly assigned loco - and still tell you to within 1 MPH how fast they’re going - they just know, almost instinct or second nature to them.
- Paul North.
Btw…this question was prompted by memories of an encounter I had back in 1981 with a CP conductor in Kamloops, BC. He saw me standing on the station platform with my camera and decided to come over to strike up conversation (how often does that happen anymore…). But he mentioned that he had recently moved to BC from Saskatchewan. He stated that engineers in SK would rip across the Prairie at high speeds, and that the slower speeds of BC would take some getting used to. He left me with the impression that speed was pretty much up to the engineer. Maybe that’s how it was back then…
What are “TPOB restrictions?”
Their are a number of things that determine on the speed of my train, (1) speed restricted cars some cars are limited to 45 mph, (2) tonnage on some suddivisions on my railroad if my train is over 100 ton per operatiave brake my train is 45 mph, where as coal trains I run are 50 mph, (3) Train compliance this is hard to explaine. All the above questions are answered in the timetable or the ssi. Here are a few others that limit my train speed (1) form a temporary speed restrictions, (2) perminant speed restrictions, (3) heavy cars over some spots I am limited to 10 mph. I have to know the route that I run like the back of my hand in dealing with this.
Rodney
I recall reading an account about the NYC in the days of steam - an engineer took over one of their crack trains headed out of the city toward Albany. His instructions from the dispatcher were along the lines of “do not arrive in Albany before…”
Good question - I didn’t recognize it either. It’s “Tons Per Operative Brake” - see the post below from Rodney Beck at 11:48 AM today. This is as in the:
“Gross trailing tonnage of the train divided by the total number of cars having operative brakes. (not including locomotives)” [from the Tranportation Dictionary]
If it’s a heavy train or a number of the cars have bad-order brakes, then you’d not want to be going too fast on any grades or in the event a quick stop is needed.
- Paul North.