I was reading an article in a recent issue of MR about the wonderful layout of George Selios, and how it has now become a host for operating sessions. I got to thinking about all that is supposedly involved in this, particularly the cards and all, not to mention the hand held radios or ear sets and it seemed pretty intimidating and complicated. I think the work of George Selios stands for itself and I would find an ops session on his railroad to be kind of a big distraction, almost out of place. It just doesn’t seem to fit right, to me. Surely there must be a few a of you out there that have reservations about these large sessions. Care to share your thoughts on the subject?
Quite frankly, I’ve always found the idea of operating to this extent to be boring and not worth all of the effort. Then again, I’m not much of a group person either, I like to work alone.
Properly done operating in a group can be a very rewarding learning process. In the group you can learn how real railroads operate and how the small duties of the individuals add up to a collective achievment. Looking from the outside in it would appear to be intimidating, but I suggest finding a group and sitting in on a session just to observe. I’m sure you will find that once you become a part of it instead of just reading about it that you will come to enjoy the idea of operations, and operation in a group environment. What have you got to lose by trying?
This hobby has many different facets - model building, layout building, railfan operation, lone operating, group operating, clubs, modular groups, collecting, and more that I haven’t thought of. We each pick and chose as to which ones and as many as we have time, money, and interest for. Frankly, I think that’s a big reason this hobby is so good. So if you don’t care for group operating, that’s fine. But it’s also fine for those who.
Personally, I have not done group operations but I am open to the idea.
Group operating sessions don’t have to be big. To have a big operating group you have to have a big layout. If you do have a big layout, it surely is not your first one, so you know what is going on and what it takes.
I have a medium size layout and I have three friends over as my operating crew. That makes four of us. No radios, no car cards but a single sheet manifest per train.
I would rather operate on a medium size layout than a large one.
I find the idea interesting. I have never participated in an operating session and frankly, I would be a little bit scared. I would not want to make a “fool” of myself. I have never been invited to an operating session.
All that being said, I am trying to build a layout with operation in mind. It would seem like a lot of fun to have the trains dropping off and picking up cars at the appropriate industry or yard. As a matter of fact, I am building my yard with the idea of classifying cars, building trains and sorting them out. I have a plan for the mainline, 2 arrival/departure tracks and 5 classification tracks. I will also have servicing facilities with a turntable, roundhouse, water tank, coaling tower, ash pit, inspection pits, and an icing platform. So, to make all of that worth the effort, I plan to have operating sessions. I have Tony Koester’s book on operations. I will start out simple and go from there. It sounds like car cards will be the way to go.
I have been to a couple operating sessions at a beautifully sceniced and well thought out layout created by an MMR who lives not too far from me.
All I can say is his method is very relaxed, logical, and FUN! I will be back to his home for many more sessions I hope. I will also be starting OPs at my layout ASAP. It really makes all the work put into creating a Model Railroad come alive.
I am sure there is a great deal offered by group sessions, but I am aware of no other HO users in my area, and I prefer to operate by myself to my own schedule. About the only guests I get to my basement are sowbugs and arachnids. [swg]
Operating session? I’ve yet to find myself able to partake in an operating session. I’d love too, seems like a lot of fun and learning. Anyone in the Puget Sound know of operating sessions, or where I’d find one?
I enjoy operating solo on a small switching layout, or as part of a group on large layouts. I’m fortunate enough to have several layouts that hold group sessions within a couple hours’ drive, in addition to the one that I’ve been a partner in building. Two layouts require at least seven people to run a session well, while another requires 9 to 12.
To me, operations is the answer to the question “Well, that’s a gorgeous layout you’ve built there, so now what?”
Getting involved in prototype operations can seem very daunting at first. Depending on whose layout you’re running on, and how they choose to run, it can be downright intimidating. The first prototypically-based operating session I attended was at a layout owned by a career railroader and included a lot of the owner’s friends from the railroad. Since they chose to run by prototype rules, it was a case of jumping into the deep end. The learning curve for the way they wanted to operate was steep, but at least I knew that going in. Demonstrating a willingness to learn how they did things helped me to be accepted.
After a few sessions, I discovered that I really liked operating according to prototype rules-- I particularly liked the mental engagement. I got invitations for a few of my friends to come over and try it, and most of them took to it with great enthusiasm. That’s why my buddies and I developed the Operations Road Show project-- as a way to give people a chance to try their hand at operations based on prototype rules, in a lighthearted and not-too-serious learning environment. At an ORS session, we know people are learning as they go along,and that they are going to make mistakes. In fact, it’s expected.
After the first few operating sessions we held, we discovered that one thing we liked about how we chose to set up our sessions was the interaction between the crews and between the crew members themselves (we try to run with
Why would you think that after building a model of something that moves, that letting it move is a bad thing?
An operating session fulfills the purpose of the layout. Unless the railroad operates its just a big diorama, a museum piece. Building a railroad and not letting it operate doesn’t seem right to me.
There is no way you can build a layout as big as Selios’ and operate it with one person. The operating session is whole point of the effort. There are a dozen layouts in my local area in various states of completion that hold group operating sessions. They range from smaller layouts like mine that host 4 people to large layouts that can handle 20-25 people operating at a time.
Model railroading can definitely be a group activity. Too bad you don’t enjoy it. Its a lot of fun.
I have participated in two operating sessipns on a beautifully sceniced layout. The first time I was pretty much a viewer, following along with another operator. Mostly I was amazed at the layout, it was the first large, home layout with that amount of scenic detail I had ever seen. The second time I was sort of the operator with a coach by my side. It was fun and I could see that if I knew a lot more about operations and that layout (names of places and procedures used there), it could be fun. It was not a terribly strict operation, but a number of trains moving with many operators (8 or so) made it such that things had to go pretty much as planned. I have come to realize there are stricter and looser operating sessions at different layouts. Personally I think I prefer a low key session, maybe with just a couple of operators. My layout is planned for my solo operation, but would be able to host a small operating group, if there were enough interested folks in the area.
From what I have gathered talking to folks and reading these forums, it is kind of “different strokes for different folks.” There are those who love to operate in large groups with strict rules, much like a real railroad had to. Others prefer lower key sessions. Yet others prefer to do their own thing on their own. And we can al get together and enjoy a good train show and have a good chat with one another.
Well, I can give you my perspective. Coming from a 3 rail background, we were your usual “round and round” operators. It gets boring pretty quick. Then I was invited to an operating session, I quickly accepted. I arrived to a house that I had never been to, met 4 other guys I had never met, and not having any idea on what an operating session is like, well…I was sacred to death. The host and the other guys were very patient and helpful. That night changed my view of Model Railroading. It opened up a whole new world. I have since been to several other operating sessions and have met some absolutely wonderful people who share the same interest in this wonderful hobby. I consider them new friends whom I am grateful for taking the time to introduce me to a whole new world of this wonderful hobby. I am quickly learning a lot on operations, design. My Railroad will now have a purpose. As far as a operating session being a lot of work, I’ve been to differant types of operating sessions, both with and without a dispatcher, both with and without staging areas. All have been enjoyable. Some are very little prep, others are more. Depends on what you like to do. I encourage you to visit as many layouts as you can (open houses), and join your local NMRA, attend the meetings, ask questions about operations and I’m sure in time, the invitations will come. Your view on running trains will never be the same.
It’s all about how well the Ops is put together, I always equate it to a stage production. You have Yardmasters (Stage Hands) Theactors (road crews) Dispatch (Director) and the cars as props.
Thing is to not kill it with too much paperwork, and to not have enough to make it all clear. I’ve enjoyed the ones I’ve been to however, and wold like to do and set up more.
I will echo the thoughts of Dave H., It is one of the main reasons to build a model railroad.
I belong to a local group and we operate every week at a different persons layout. Each person has a slightly different kind of operation, but none are “high pressure”. I have operated on layouts with fast clocks and tight schedules as well. It is fun too, but is a little more demanding.
Personally, I like both operating sessions and good display value running - my layout is carefully designed for both.
I do not like “others” to help me build the layout, but I do enjoy operating in the group.
It can be a little scary at first, but once you realize everyone is there to have fun, you find it is great fun.
rjake, I know I have been hard on you about some issues from time to time. If you came to one of our groups operating sessions, you might see why I and others see the hobby so differently from you.
It is about creating and operating a minature transportation world and being a key player in its construction and operation. It is not just about owning model trains or even a model train layout.
Some people do make it very complex, but usually they understand that new operators need to be eased into more complex jobs.
On many of the layouts I operate on, I take the same job every time. On others I do whatever is available.
Operating schemes need not be complex or high stress. I suggest you read up on some and see what I mean or better yet find a local group where you can just go and watch.
Thanks for everyone’s input, upon further thought tonight after reading your posts, it sounds like a lot of fun. Maybe I will convince my brother to come with me. There is actually an O scale (2 rail of course) club with a very large layout within 20 minutes from me. We should try that out, the group has been around for ages and the guys there are all great, I’ve talked to them twice, and I wanted to join but didn’t have the time (been real busy with work).
And thanks Sheldon for the invite, I really appreciate it, and I may take you up on that in the future.
And Crandell, lol, I have my own share of visitors, quite similar to yours [(-D]
Jake: One reccomendation then, if they offe ou a choice of positions, I’d reccomend nabbing either a through freight or a Passenger, to give you the opportunity to get familiar with the layout before being overwhelemd by switching.
Better, they might also, if they require two man jobs, put you in the conductor’s seat and let a seaspned engineer drive.
The first couple of times, you (at least I do) feel a little silly talking into the radio. And when the dispatcher actually works for the railroad, and names all the interlockings as they really are - it can take a while to get the hang of the locations. That’s how it is on the club modular - I know what area the different modules represent, as in specific town or location, but that’s not what I need to report to the dispatcher. Some places have the markers up like you see on the railroad today, but not all have been placed.
But once you get going, it’s a whole lot of fun. The anxiety goes away, and you soon realize you aren’t the only one who can’t remember the names of all the CPs. Soon you feel you really are doing something other than turning a knob and watching a ‘toy’ run around the layout.
It seems to me that the more you try to simulate a prototype railroad the deeper you will get into operation - as opposed to simply running trains to see the wheels roll.
In my case, operations is the driving force behind every facet of my layout design and construction. My cars were built and their car cards created simultaneously, many far in advance of any possibility of putting them on a real layout. A large percentage of my waybills were created during a railroadless tour of duty in a combat zone forty-odd years ago. My timetable is based directly on the prototype’s as of the month I have targeted to model. The visible tracks are designed to allow exact reproduction of the prototype’s train and individual car movements, while the netherworld has been designed to support the prototype’s timetable by making it possible for the trains in staging to appear when and where the employee timetable and schedule cards dictate.
Now, I am a solo operator - the lonest of lone wolves. Yet, my layout could be operated by a group - car cards, waybills, schedule (clearance) cards and all, which I use just as if I was only one of several operators (or several different operators, in rotation.) The layout has not reached a state of completion that would allow for proper multi-body operation. When it does reach that state the paperwork and infrastructure will all be in place, tested and ready to go.
One possible source of trepidation about operation is the thought of creating all of those car cards, waybills, boxes and procedures in one mighty surge as the price for going from roundy-round train running to pure car card and waybill operation in one fell swoop. Note that it’s possible to ease in, a few car cards and waybills at a time. While every car should have a car card, only those cars to be spotted or picked up have to have car cards. So you switch only three or four cars, and the
It is said “Dream, Plan, Build”, but it should be amended by “Operate”. Operating a layout in the fashion of a real railroad gives me the most fun, be it as a lone wolf, or even better, in a group. Operation gives the layout a purpose - that does not mean you have to get up at 4 am to run the early morning milk train [:-^]
I found out that just watching trains run on even the most elaborate layout tends to get boring after a little while, although it can be very relaxing, now and then. Operating like the real railroads is certainly more rewarding, but also demanding.
Our round robin group builds and operates a narrow gauge modular layout, which we sometimes display at train shows. The re-enactment of a real railroad operation catches the visitors´ attention much more than those highly detailed roundy-rounders. The average time (we keep statistics on that) a visitor is observing our operation is 20 minutes, as opposed to the 5 minutes seen elsewhere.