While in my “reading room” this morning, I re-read Tony Koester’s article in April’s MRR about what will qualify as “good enough” in the 21st century, and I really have to take issue with his assertions. At the risk of sounding too harsh, I’d have to put him under the heading of Model Railroad Zealot. What I got from the piece was that any model railroad worth its salt will be point-to-point prototypically-based DCC fully sound equipped multi-level with multiple staging and realistic operation. Layouts lacking these qualities will apparently be short-changing the hobby.
Last I checked, this was a hobby (something done for fun, relaxation, escape, etc) and trying to run a model railroad like it’s a real railroad sounds like a lot of work. I already have a day job that satisfies my need to work hard, thank you very much.
My railroad will be for my pleasure. It will be DC, roundy-rounder. The only other people who are likely ever to see it are my family and friends (assuming I ever acquire any of the latter) who fortunately know even less about real railroading than I do. When they look at my layout, will they frown at my locomotive roster, wondering why anyone would have a 2-8-0 sharing the line with a GP-50? Will they ask what kind of car forwarding system I use? Will they snicker at the $1.67 BMW 5-series auto waiting at a grade crossing for a 4-6-2 loco that predates it by 80 years? Or will they say, “Wow, look at those bridges and tunnels! Cool! You must’ve had a lot of fun building this!”
If your future friend are anything like some of my past friends, they’ll just stand there with a befuttled look on thier face wondering why a grown man still plays with trains. Some will even make snide remarks about it while others will say nothing. Others on the other hand may become interested in sharing your hobby and ask questions to learn more about it. The koesters of the world do what they do because that’s what makes it fun for them. Bottom line is this… Your trains, your layout, so go ahead and couple your 4 wheel bobber caboose to your sd70mac and have a ball. Yea, I know that wasn’t one of your examples but it better illustrates a strange mix.
My layout is for my pleasure so I built it with that in mind. Two mainline’s because I enjoy watching trains run with some switching thrown in. If you ever come to my house don’t be surprised if you see a Big Boy pulling a bunch of 60’ Gunderson box cars one way while a VIA Rail or a GO commuter train is going the other way while a few Ontario Northland GP9’s do some switching. That is good enough for me.
A hobby is supposed to be fun. If someone has a Lionel speghetti bowl complete with figure eights, trains passing through the same scene three times as it makes the circuit with a locomotive roster whose only logic is that the unit caught his fancy, then who are we to say they are wrong?
It is better for each of us to come up with our goals and values first. I know people who insist on prototypical operations but don’t have a whole lot of room at home. What they do is have a smaller switching layout at home and a membership in a club made up of people with the same operating philosophy. They get the best of both worlds. I know another man who is into Lionel. He has a garage size layout with porcelein buildings that don’t look real. But it is his layout, it works great and he has a lot of fun with it.
There is more than one way to be in this hobby. I don’t think Tony Koester, Dave Barrow and Malcolm Furlow could be in the same club together, but each of them has made contributions to our hobby. We can appreciate each of them while choosing our own path.
Good Enough ( Like Beauty ) is in the eye of the beholder.
If DCC, Point-to-Point and Proto-Operations floats Tony Koester’s boat then more power to him. However, he shouldn’t look down his nose at other modelers that are happy with DC or Continuous-Loops or Mixed-Eras.
Model Railroading is supposed to be FUN, not a headache! ( Unless you happen to LIKE headaches! )
That’s up to you. You know what you want, like and expect from your hobby, comparing it to a super detailed, exact timed theme layout, or the lastest in sound equipped whatever should make you think that you not good enough. Model magazines like to show the better end of the hobby, but it should be used by you as a forum for new ideas, as no layout is complete, there’s always something you can do to make it better. Worrying that your stuff won’t compare to something in a magazine is up to you. It’s your hobby.Don’t forget Tony’s been a model railroader for many years and his latest layout is being built with lots of help, maybe I can get those guys over here for a few weeks…
And this is what I love most about the hobby; The “What-If” factor. Coming up with some of the strangest possible combinations I can, and have them look good to me is what I really enjoy. I’ll never be able to see it in real life, so I have to settle for little scaled models of them. It’s good enough for me. And that’s how it will always be.[:D]
I more or less gave up reading Koesters columns a long time ago. I appreciated him when he was RMC editor, but he’s too far off in one direction for me.
Do what you can afford, do what you enjoy, and when the hobby becomes more work or frustration than what it is suppose to be, then its time to give it up. You may very well run across the salesmen who can “help” you enjoy your hobby better with more than you are willing or able to put into it, but as always satisfy yourself and only yourself. I enjoy looking at all the pictures posted on this forum, and someday I too hope to have the time to do a huge layout with every goody I can think of, but now is not my time.
Amen to that. I haven’t read the article yet but if the assertion is true I total agree with monoguy63! I am on my third iteration of the my first layout just trying to come close to all the wonderful stuff I people are doing out here on the forum and I tend to forget why I am in the hobby. In fact I didn’t post my web site because I don’t think my modeling is “good enough”.
Peter
I think maybe your interpretation of the article might be a tad egocentric. If you are assuming that Koester is an elitist snob looking down on the rest of us, I can see where you get your interpretation. Most likely, I’d bet, Koester would be right at the forefront of those proclaiming your right to have as crappy a layout as you want.
But that is not what he is talking about. What he is saying is that the state of the art has progressed and to be state of the art, you cannot build as if you lived in the 80’s. The technology is better. Train manufacturers are doing a better job. Hobbyists share more information and have raised the bar on how good, efficient, and technically accrate we can achieve.
What was good in the 80’s pales in comparison to what is good now.
Some people live for that one night every month when the gang comes over to Operate, with a capital O. They’re lucky enough to have a space where point-to-point works, and the train takes more than 30 seconds to traverse the distance. I’ve got a 5x12 foot free-standing layout, which lends itself more to loop operation with some switching, so that’s what I’ve built. I also run my trains by myself, pretty much every night, and that suits me fine, too.
I’ve only got one Era rule - I set my layout in the 1960’s, and nothing from 1970 and beyond can be there. One of these days, I’ll get a nice mid-sized steamer, but it will only run with the “excursion” passenger train.
On the other hand, I’m finding that I’m really drawn to scenery with a lot of details. No Plywood Central for me. That’s my extreme, and I’m happy to take the time to get my scenic details just right. I realize that if I did have a giant basement empire, I would never be able to fini***he scenery to my satisfaction.
I’d very much doubt that. Lacking longterm exposure to the hobby, you are likely unaware that Koester has been writing the same highly opinionated stuff in MR for years (I agree with Bob B. he was much better at RMC - before they gave him the boot over there): it’s always been pure prototype to the nth degree or it’s not model railroading, according to Tony. He has never expressed any particular tollerance for anything less.
His concepts of how things should be represents about 0.1% of all other hobbyist, even though to read his column you’d think his ideas were main-stream. Tony’s concept is creating an operating museum diorama. But our hobby is about playing with model trains in any fashion we see fit, realistic or otherwise, not obsessively following and recreating every detail, freight car, or shipping list with regard to the prototype (which honestly only bores most folks in the hobby if they bother look into those details).
I agree with all of the above. I plan on doing a 6 X 12 and some of what I want in incorporate include a Berkshire 2-8-4 with early 19th century passenger cars at one end, 60"s era Frisco passenger line at another, and problably modern freight line at another point. Reasons are (1) I like steamers, so I want to have one! (2) Frisco passenger line I actually rode in Missouri when I was growing up (3) I think it would be “cool” to have a modern freight service.
How anachronistic and illogical is all that? Quite a bit, but I still think if I build and scenic it well, it will still be an entertaining layout for most people, even if not the “pros.”
My 2 cents worth. I just started a few months ago. I run my diesels from the first ones, BL2 to AC4400’s. I have rolling stock old and new. I wasn’t going to run any steam, but hey, I just might now. My first layout is probably somewhat crude to veteran MR’s. But it’s my layout and I’ll run as I wish. Already people have commented on how much detail I have put into it. (scenery). So I think I’ve done pretty well if I say so myself. I don’t think I’ll ever get to the stage of some others who MUST be 100% prototypical . It’s my layout and I’ll do exactly as I please…and I’m having fun…that’s what matters.
Sorry, I just don’t see what all the hub bub is about. I took the coulmn at face value. While I admit that Mr Koester is very operations oriented, it hasn’t turned me off from reading the words he has to offer. The written word has started more arguments than can be counted, mainly because we read from our own knowledge base, prejudices and even the state of our emotions at the time of reading. I didn’t take it that my skills, equipment or layout (or lack thereof right now) wasn’t good enough. Just my [2c]
I like something that makes ‘sense’ and is close to the prototype. I have the space to build a large layout with single track mainline/staging/etc - But there is a ‘continuous loop’ so I can just ‘run’ trains. Folks who are ‘total prototype’ are OK with me, but that is just them. What really gets me is the guy who makes big claims, but his layout/models do not ‘walk the talk’ he is holding the rest us up to. Too many times I have had folks talk the ‘proto’ line, and when I ‘see’ their railroad - It is ‘just’ another layout. I am not sure they really understand what they are saying(ignorant), or are ‘blind’ when they try to do what they talk. There is nothing ‘wrong’ with generic or a ‘dog from every litter’ collection of engines. I think a lot of us tend to make buying decisions based on what we remember in our youth or ‘it looks cool’. Those ‘neat’ models of mine are now displayed on walll mounted cases, not filling every siding on the layout.
Tony at least ‘builds’ what he is talking about. I may not agree with his current project in every respect, but I do understand where he is coming from. A few years ago, I was at a TLR meet and Tony was there. One of the ‘layouts’ was a live steam operation, and TK had a big grin like everyone else while he ‘rode’ on a flat car around the ‘loop’. Later he joked about having an ‘operating session’, but could not decide what ‘size’ the car cards should be!
I think many people take this hobby very seriously, however, there is nothing wrong with that as long as they’re enjoying themselves. To me, a hobby is supposed to be an enjoyable adventure apart from the real world. I feel when your hobby gets to a point where you start getting frustrated, insanely competitive, or overly compulsive, it becomes more like a cut-throat job rather than an enjoyable past time. There’s nothing wrong with competition or modeling contests as these inspire people and manufacturers to greatly improve their models and in the long run benefit us all, however, they aren’t for me. I am building a small indoor Large Scale freelance logging line based on prototype practices. The scales I use are from 1:20.3 to 1:24 as long as it looks credible. I also enjoy round and round operations, switching and mix eras. I also dabble in HO and am freelancing (protolancing) in that also. There will always be people who think their way is the right way to do something. I’m in this hobby to have fun and being overly competitive or compulsive about modeling is no fun for me.
My layout is pretty much the exact opposite of the “realistic” layout described in the first post here: no sound, no DCC, no point-to-point operation, not prototypically based, and no multi-levels. And I’m perfectly happy with it.[:D]
I prefer no sound. I’d probably consider saving for a Trix Mikado or something similar if they offered it without sound, but they’re sound only. Why don’t manufacturers who make sound equipped engines make all of their engines with and without sound for both crowds?[%-)] They’d most likely make a lot more money if they did![:D]