I was running a fairly long train (for me anyway) on the layout for a guest. The conversation turned to how long trains are getting today. I found this article today and realize a layout expansion will soon be in order. If I want to be prototypically correct. Wow![:O]
http://www.canada.com/business/fp/long+trains/4348592/story.html
LION has herd of 3 mile long trains being tested. Only thing stopping them is the lack of passing sidings that long.
THAT is a long train: My whole layout from 242nd Street to South Ferry is just a little over 4.5 miles!
Once the locomotive clears South Ferry and heads on back north, they could watch themselves coming and going.
ROAR
I just read that article. CN is close to me, and I’ve seen some l-o-n-g trains, which also use distributed power. You’ll have to do that on your layout, just so your locos are in exact sync. It’s the “stringline” effect that pulls our long model trains off the track, just like the real trains, which is part of the reason they use DP.
Also, keeping the loaded and / or heavier cars to the front of the train helps.
I don’t have to worry about that on my small layout, with about 50’ of mainline and one passing siding, which is by the station and yard, so I can use in my switching operations, and also serves as the drop off and pick up area for freight traffic. One loco, and about 14 cars fit just right.
Mike.
Canadian Pacific runs 3 mile trains across the Prairies all the time up here in Canada. A number of years ago they extended the sidings to accommodate the longer trains on their main line. When you get stopped for a train at a level grade crossing, you are there for a long time, not a good time [^o)]
When the trains get to Calgary Alberta heading west, they are shortened up somewhat for their journey through the mountains but not all that much. The motive power is some impressive on those 3 milers let me tell you.
Dennis
I’m amazed at how long their trains can get, I found that 33 feet is one N scale mile. I only have enough freight cars to make a 40-60 car train and that’s only 4-5 feet(including a trio of locos), I also tried to do a full BN passenger/exec. move that was long it was before I got my Kato set(s).
A lot depends on what you are doing with those trains. Are you just running them around or are you using them to move cars in and out of yards. How much area do you want to operate? One station, two or three stations, a branch, a subdivision?
Personally I don’t see the advantage of a looooonnnnng train on a model railroad. If you have a 4x8 and operate a 4 ft train on it and you have a scale mile and a half main line and operate 20-25 ft trains, you really haven’t done any better than the 4x8 in the ratio of main track to trains length. I would rather keep my trains the same length and increase the distance between stations.
I have been able to run 70-80 car trains (Coal Drags) on the MESS but all it takes is a “OH-Ooooo” and the whole thing turns into a “Train Wreck” and an even bigger MESS.
My bad [:-^]
20 car trains I find are optimum but I sure like my Long Coal Drags, which is one of the reasons I’m going with 30" curves and “perfect track”.
Dehusman, I have to say your post got me thinking a little about train length and scale speed. In the video below this would be a decent size train on my Layout( Once I buy the C55, and scenic it), this is only about 10-15 cars. I’m running this train at about the 40 SMPH mark on my tech II, it seems to make the train feel not only more realistic but it seems perfect to me. I like long trains, but layout size will constrain this. While I think of a track plan I’ve set limitations to the size of trains I will run 1-16 pieces(including loco(s) and caboose). these train lengths may get even shorter depending upon passing track placement, the SP&S trackage is mostly single track(with a whole plethora of passing sidings). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAmVNfQSc
On my old layout, I still ran freight, I used ONLY box-car red (brown) box cars. That made the train look longer because the viewer’s ey could not rest on one particular car. Coal Drags were 12 cars long, I could have done 20 before it looked too long for the layout.
NOW LION has BIG layout and NYCT runs 10 car trains (50’ cars = 500’ train), but that is too long for may layout, the six car trains are just perfect, and that makes the platforms 4’ long. That is long enough. I can fit two of them on the long side of the room (on each level),
A LION’S got to do what a LION has got to do.
ROAR
Most of my locals are limited to about a dozen cars, as that’s the capacity of the passing sidings. These trains “work” most of the towns though which they pass. Through trains, which run only from one staging yard to another could be up to double that length.
I have run much longer trains, just to see if it could be done, as most of my layout is on curves and grades, often at the same time. I operated a 71 car train with four locomotives, first with all four on the head end, then with two pulling and two pushing, then with the four units distributed throughout the train. These tests were done with diesels, then steam, then steam and diesels for all three methods of power placement. While all arrangements could move the train around the layout without incident, having the locos distributed throughout the train permitted the least-dramatic operation and also the fastest running (fastest being relative, as most of the line is posted at 30mph or less). [swg]
Watching the slack action with all power on the head-end was downright scary, as some parts of the train would be going downhill at the same time as other parts were going uphill. If the train had been an accordion, it would’ve been playing a fast polka. [(-D]
Having a train that long also meant that only part of it was visible at any time, and with the operator and locos at one spot and the rest of the train not visible, with a long peninsula between the operator and any possible derailment on the back end of the train, there was potential for a serious wreck.
I realise that the forces involved with real trains don’t scale-down for HO scale trains, but the tests did point out the superiority of distributed power. This, by the way, was with DC power. [swg]
Wayne
80 car freight in N
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5WVUP-1fLA
train fills entire balloon loop and come back intoframe right at the end
HO unit train, three locos on the lead, IIRC, at the time, 40 something cars, and a DPU.
Now around 70 cars, still way short of the 120 car prototype, still stretches a third of the way around the club layout
Hi all
Big trains not such a problem on a small layout where space dictates a max train length of 4 cars [:D].
I remember reading somewhere that the ideal distance between stations on a model railroad, was three times maximum train length so that the train appeared to go somewhere.
I wonder with the ever increasing real train lengths how long we can stand a chance at maintaining the ideal model distances I don’t know too many modellers who have much more than a scale mile of mainline track.
Most I know have a good deal less than one scale mile of main line.
regards John
I have ran 35 car trains at the club and thought it was too long…I now run 2 locomotives and 18-20 cars which looks to be around a half of a scale mile in the minds eye.Good enough for me.
Those super sized prototype trains is all about the bottom line and not really safe for the general public regardless of what the railroads claim…Its a matter of time before one of these giant trains derails and raises havoc on a city or town.
Well the most I have had was about 40 cars (37 IIRC) pulled behind one (1) Athearn F7 (love them super weights). My Athearn F45 hauled about a 30 car train up the 2% grade with little drama, and switching across the ‘flat’ layout area my grand Atlas GP38 had no problems with a 26 car train.
Now once I figure out how to speed match some locos (F45, GP35, F7 [Athearn], GP38 [Atlas], SD40 [Kato]) I will have to head over the club some Saturday or even sneak in there on a Sunday, borrow the wifes iPod, and make an attempt at a prototypical length train. They should have enough grain cars to make a 40 car train. Now how many locos would it take to get a 100 car train up a 2% grade?
I am however, with BRAKIE. If there is only one or maybe two others running a train, I may make up a pretty big one and go for it, but I usually stick to the operating schemes the club has come up with (14 cars + caboose + loco pair).
Which reminds me, I should make a platform car and get one of those model train cameras.
P.S. I have also hauled a “long” 10 car train with a 44 tonner.
I agree that on our model layouts we need to selectively compress train lengths based on layout size.
Personally I like long trains, and I like the idea of modeling a single place and having trains come and go from staging, rather than try to model “multiple towns”.
My layout plan includes a mainline run of nearly 8 scale miles, and I designed the layout to handle trains in the 30 to 50 car range. For me that is long enough to justify lots of power - 4 unit first generation diesels, or double headed steam - and still look believable for my 1954 time period.
As for the prototype, long trains have always been the order of the day for things like coal drags. But maybe they are pushing the envelope a bit with these three mile long mid power set ups.
Sheldon
For fun: As many as your locos will pull.
For OPS: As many as will fit on your shortest siding.
I disagree, Chip.
Having trains longer than your shorter sidings adds to the fun, as you now have to figure out where meets can occur based on where the trains will fit. A long freight may only fit in every third or fourth siding. Meeting at the wrong place may introduce a need to saw-by to pass a train, or even a double-saw-by if both trains are too ling. I suggest a better rule would be “As many as will fit in your average siding,”
I was going to qualify that with “depending on the talents of your dispatcher,” but a cat is on my lap and I’m typing with one hand.
Saw a drag East of Swift Current heading to Moose Jaw with 123 cars beside me on the highway at 65 mph and one locomotive, about 8 years ago.
A while back, UP ran a stack train westbound into Southern California that was 18,000 feet over coupler faces. The report didn’t give a platform or box count, but it did get a bunch of people in La-La Land into the, Run in circles, scream and shout," mode.
Happily for me I can run prototype-length trains (1:80 scale) that won’t overload a siding that’s 8 feet between clearance points. OTOH, if I was modeling the Powder River Basin I’d need a supermarket (or medium size hangar) to build the equivalent of what I have in a 2-car garage.
As for seeing yourself coming and going, doesn’t that already happen in several places? (Horseshoe Curve, Tehachapi Loop, Caliente, CA. Hardly a comprehensive list.)
Bottom line? If you like todays humongutrains, build accordingly (after you rob a bank to get the wherewithal.) Or pick a prototype that ran short trains behind comparatively light locomotives on steep grades. As a last resort, apply selective compression…
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with prototype-length trains)