Lets say; A fuel dealer in 1940-50, wanted a load of coal. I assume he called a broker, to place an order.
How long after that call, do you think, he could expect his load ?
[ I’ve too mutch free time right now and my mind wanders ]
In all truth 3-5 weeks for long distance and for shorter distance 1-2 weeks.That doesn’t include any enroute breakdown times.
What slows the shipment is terminal dwell time that could take up to 60-70 hours in larger cities like Chicago including time spent on interchange tracks or railroads like IHB,BRC or other terminal roads…
This is why shippers and receivers scream at their freight agent back them—and they still do…
If you can find them at train shows buy Trains Magazine from the 50s.Its not a pretty story why shippers turn to trucks.
It depends on the commodity. In some cases, such as produce, loads were sold in transit and could arrive within a day or two (or less). Clearly, nobody waited “1-2 weeks” much less “3-5 weeks” for a reefer of fruit.
If it was a regular customer with an efficient broker, many commodities arrived reasonably quickly in the transition era.
Did the trucking compaines have rules back then when i lived in Cherryville NC home of Carolina Freight Carriers drivers bragged how they will drive long hours and run 3 to 4 log books and know drivers that drove for Roadway,CF and PPG industries when they had their own trucking one driver their bragged how they took boxcar loads from SCL and he said as long we can cheat we will take more.
And the highway havoc caused by sleep-deprived drugged-up truckers led directly to the Federal mandates we know and (don’t) love.
If a coal dealer had a predictable requirement and a good broker, the broker could frequently snag a car of coal on the roll - shuttling around awaiting final delivery instructions. That car might be delivered by the next local freight.
OTOH, regular users of rail delivered products were well aware of the long order-to-delivery time and would allow for it. FedEx doesn’t offer overnight delivery of coal, structural steel and marble slabs.
Chuck
Russell, The railroads used to be allowed 16 hours on duty IIRC, I have been driving truck for almost 28 years, over 30 if you include my straight truck time, our longest allowable drive time, when I started, was 10 behind the wheel, with 15 hours total on duty time. Several years ago (1994?) they changed the HOS rules to 11 BTW(behind the wheel) and 14 TOD (Total on Duty) , BUT, that 14 hours was from initial Time on duty, regardless of any off duty time within that 14, with a minimum time between shifts of at least 10 hours.
When did the railroads start having to work within HOS rules? Yep, some truckers did, and still do “Cheat” but for some of that time, it was leveling the playing field, it is okay for one crew to work 16 hours, but different rules for another transportation profession. back then the RR’s had much more political influence than the trucking industry had, it is no wonder that they were allowed longer HOS rules. And don’t think that the RR’s didn’t try to politically hamper the trucking industry in any way they could, such as lobbying for tighter trucking HOS rules, than they were subject to themselves.
Cheating did/still does happen, mostly by independant owner/opera
This was in the 60’s 70’s.
I started in 1989 1 year tractor trailers Builders Transport and after that straight trucks.
That is all i heard from the union drivers from Carolina Freight all ways crying about the Railroads and they really cried about all of the trailers Carolina put on the rails.
Big time the tax man told me that they were the worse to cheat on ther taxes but that is another story.
There was a time when trucking regulations said that a truck could only go one way and on the return trip it had to be empty. It was deregulation in the 1970s that ended that rule and led to the independent trucking industry. Before that trucks were mostly owned by big companies.
j…
No… The drivers could drive 24 hours or more straight and many did and here’s why.
If those 18 wheels not turning there’s no pay and the trucking companies encourage “fast on time delivery”…
Up until my brother in law retired after 42 years of OTR he bragged about having two log books. I understand today the drivers have to stop and rest because their truck shuts down after X many hours of drive time.
Anyway… Rail transportation was slow even a reefer could take up to 7-10 days in some cases and needless to say some produce was ruin and meat was spoiled upon arriving at the receiver’s door… It was not a pretty picture. Disgusted shippers left the rails in droves. Trains Magazine of the 50/60s told the story in columns and articles.
Even today terminal dwell time due to the lack of rested crews slow old fashion switching and interchange still plague the railroads in transit time.
A smart coal yard operator would know what his sasonal demand was and how long it took order to receipt. He would also know how many carloads his yard could handle and have some reserve in busy season.
This is NOT TRUE, the truck will not shut down. If the driver drives over his hours, the electonic log will log it and the violation is carved in stone somewhere. Should that companey be checked by DOT ,everybody 's in trouble.
If shut down were true there would be trucks sitting every where, think about getting thru a major city at rush hour, or traffic jam for any reason.
Sorry but that kind of misinformation really bugs me. Yes, I’m an ex driver.
BTW kinda off topic ?
I was going by what I was told by truckers who I knew while working at the warehouse…
I also know you see 18 wheelers jammed up at rest stops and some times on entrance/exit access roads.
You ask how long it took a freight car to travel and I told you from straight up information that I learn while working as a brakeman and again when I bumped into rail car unloading at the warehouse-we received 10-15 boxcars a week. I also do a lot of reading on the subject of railroads.
BTW Railroads and trucks go hand in hand.
Russell, when I started driving tractor trailer, is was definitely 14 hours BTW, 15 hours OD, but any time off duty could stretch your 15 hours on duty time beyond 15 hours from initial starting duty time, which you no longer can do today.
Thinking more about it, it may have been 2004(for some reason I keeping thinking it was in a “4” year) I started with my current company in 2002, and I am pretty sure we were still under the 10/15 rules when I started there. In the last 10 years there have been so many HOS rule changes that, it is hard to kep track of when they changed, more important to keep up with the current silly changes, that I have to work with right now, heaven forbid think about what is NEXT.
Doug
Think you Doug.
It depends on the commodity. In some cases, such as produce, loads were sold in transit and could arrive within a day or two (or less). Clearly, nobody waited “1-2 weeks” much less “3-5 weeks” for a reefer of fruit.
The original question was about coal and did not involve a diversion in transit. Still, even with reefers the whole process of ordering a car to getting to customer was a week or more, its just the customer only “saw” the last day or two, the broker (and railroad) saw the whole car cycle.
There was a day in icing, cleaning and inspecting the empty reefer, a day to have it spotted and loaded, a day to have it pulled and get it on the outbound train, even on expedited trains, it was 5-7 days from coast to coast, then a day or two to get the car from wherever the expedited train landed to the customer.
In reality, to your point, both the coal company/broker and the perishable company/broker would know they had a certain demand so they would produce and load cars without necessarily having a specific order for a specific car. They would load cars and then ship them, diverting them to customers as required, so the coal question might have in reality involved a diversion enroute (although that wasn’t the original premise).
When I worked in car control in the early 1980’s, customers would order cars up to a month in advance and the railroad only applied the cars to the orders a week in advance. Applying cars to a car order too early means the empty cars just sit around waiting to be loaded and that deprives other customers of empties to load. There are only a fixed number of cars for any given commodity and when business is good, car supply will be short.
For example in the late 1970’s and early 1980’s gons were in short supply (why RailGon dates from 1979) so if you wanted a gon you could be waiting a week or two for your order to be filled.
Dave,you know much more about the prototype than I ever will. However, I think my comments answered the actual question the Original Poster posed:
That was my point. As Dave H. correctly points out, whether coal or berries, for many commodities the actual time the final customer waited after calling a broker could be quite short. The empties management, car cleaning, provisioning, etc. went on “behind the scenes” – again for some commodities, not all. But this wouldn’t affect the end customer.
For those that believe rail transportation is fast.
Ask any shipper,read Trains Magazine,speak to railroaders do research since its been documented time after time after time beyond counting…Rail transportation is still slow and always will be.UPS screams the loudest of the loud.
While a intermodal speed averages 28-35 mph trucks run 70 mph on Interstates. Freight cars can sit in a clogged yard up to 40 hours or two-three days on a interchange while that 18 wheeler is moving.