I recently bought one of each by Walthers, I love these cars and my LHS has more of them. Would it make sense to buy several of each type? Meaning, would it be prototypical to run several of each behind my T1? If so, what would be the maximum limit?
I wish Walthers would release other types of passenger cars but so far these are the only 2 types available, and do they look amazing.
I forgot…I’m collecting the Walthers Fleet of Modernism paint scheme which I think is superb. Just so happens its a pretty rare item. Since my LHS has more of them, I really want to grab them while they are still available. Just want to make sure if it would be silly or not to couple several 10-5’s or 4-4-2’s together.
There are absolutely no other fleet of modernism cars by Walthers. And I am not aware of any plans to release other cars in this style in the future. Why? I have no idea. They would be a great sell, just like Walthers 20th century limited, which I would also like to get my hands on some time.
Go to the right to Search Community and search “What order are Passenger Cars connected??”–don’t forget the quotes and don’t forget the question marks!
How many sleepers depends on how many passengers want what type of accommodation on the train run. Some overnight trains were entirely sleepers and in busy corridors could be quite lengthy. The demand for drawing rooms, bedrooms, roomettes, even section, will vary from route to route and season to season.
So, certainly the railroads would often couple several sleepers of the same type together. Note, though, that they should all have the same orientation.
John
Thanks, thats good because I like simulating night time running often. When you say they should all have the same orientation, do you mean the sides of the sleepers that have the windows with the shades drawn should all face one direction, car after car?
PRR passenger trains were pretty static in their make up. About the only exceptions were extra P70 coachs if demand wrranted and replacement cars for cars being serviced for some reason. You may want to go to the “Keystone Crossings” web site and find the Make Up of Trains information in the passenger section. This told the Sunnyside yardmaster the types of cars and the number of cars to be included as well as the order. Nearly everything is downloadable from the site.
How many 4-4-2 and 10-5 sleepers should run behind a train?
Trick question.
Answer is none, they should run IN the train, not BEHIND it. 
I avoided saying “I didn’t even know they had legs!”
Too bad you’re not modeling Japanese prototype, from 1960 through 1979. The master public timetable (a monthly soft-cover the size of a small-city phone book) had precise consist information for every extra-fare train on the system. One look at the little string of labeled rectangles and you knew which car you were ticketed for.and exactly where it was in relation to the diner.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
4-4-2? Now that would be a goofy looking steamer…oh, wait. Anyone want to do a quick decoding of passenger car lingo? All this 4-4-2, 10-5, 3-2-1 stuff is unnerving. I prefer the simple coach, business, lounge, dinner, observation, dome cars, but I’m sure I’m missing out by not understanding all the sleep, roomette, drawing room stuff. What was the point of a drawing room anyways?
What was the point of a drawing room anyways?
!. SPACE!
bigger bed
In some cases a shower
Status
Goofy-looking? I don’t think so!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PRR_E6s_1067.jpg
This is what fast power looked like before trains got heavy enough to need 4-6-2 (and larger) motive power. Any resemblance to the PRR G5s 2-6-0 and H-8/9/10 2-8-0 was purely a matter of using the same boiler. Now you know why PRR was known as, “The Standard Railway of the World.”
As for the original question, an E6 would probably haul a short baggage car, diner, one each of the aforementioned sleepers and an open platform observation car - at track speed up to 100 mph. On level ground, the E6s routinely pulled up to 15 coaches at more reasonable speeds.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
What about the CPR Jubilee engine?
http://www.steamlocomotive.com/streamlined/surviving/cpr3002.jpg
Well, I just bought another 4-4-2 at the hobby shop. It was the last one, so I figured what the heck.
Here is what they look like. I now have 2 of these and one 10-5 sleeper. I think these are the most beautiful passenger cars ever built in real life, and in HO.
Now if only Walthers or BLI would release an observation car for this set.
Yes you are. Just take the one from your list “dome cars”. Externally yes one can tell it is a dome but inside it can be a coach, sleeper, lounge, cafe, or observation…
Same thing for observation cars. Some have cafe’s in them, others have sleepers, dorms, or lounges.
Passenger trains are a whole lot more fun when one learns more about them.
Luxury.
Back to the original topic. The goal is to put the most number of high priced cars into the consist. If one can sell tickets for only two Drawing rooms then one doesn’t want any more in the train. So the mix of first class rooms is directly proportional to the number of customers who can pay for them.
When making up a model railroad consist the biggest mistake most people make is to get a “set” of different cars. What this does is put many more ‘service’ cars into the train than there are patrons to use those services. One wants more coachs and sleepers than other types of car (other than head end cars). baggage-coach-coach-coach-diner-sleeper-sleeper-sleeper-dorm/observation
http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/92259/1083073.aspx#1083073
Thanks so much TexasZephyr. After my purchase tonight, I now have exactly 3 Walthers fleet of modernism sleepers behind 1 athearn streamlined baggage and one mail car. So I guess if I could just find several athearn streamlined coaches and 1 diner, I’ll be set.
Unfortunately Walthers only makes sleepers in the fleet of moderinsm style. Prototypically speaking, in real life, would there ever be T1 duplex pulling all cars in the fleet of modernism paint scheme, coaches, mail cars, baggae, included? Because thats what I would eventually like to do in HO if that is correct, and at this time, its not even possible, however in O gauge, it is.
Here is a sampling of a Weaver fleet of modernism coach. Unfortunately I can’t find a pic of all 5 cars, but even the baggage car was painted in this scheme. I believe Lionel did the same thing.
The “Fleet of Modernism” paint scheme was designed by Raymond Loewy and applied to cars from 1939 through 1945. The prototype T1 engine was delivered in 1941 and the production engines started delivery in 1942. So yes there is an overlap of 3-4 years. Not all cars were repainted in that time so only a few name trains might have had a complete consist of cars painted that way. Anything after 1945 would definitely had combinations of paint schems and fewer FOM cars the later the modeling effort.
Of course, I was speaking generically. Many railroads had trains that were exclusively first class (all sleepers) and other trains that were all coach. A huge example that comes to mind is the Santa Fe Super Chief (all sleepers) and the Santa Fe El Capitan (all coach). It might be good to research specific trains that you might desire to model.
The cheapest and therefore most popular sleeping accomodation was the open section berth, with upper and lower beds. A train with sleeping cars would normally have several sleepers with all or most all open sections, like a 12-1 car or a 14 or 16 section “tourist” sleeper…unless the train had as a selling point that it was “all compartment / all drawing room” or something like that I guess.
In your period, it wouldn’t be uncommon to see heavyweight sleepers with open sections in the same train with streamlined cars like you’ve already purchased. The heavyweights may have been updated to include air conditioning (indicated by all or part of the clerestory on the roof being covered to allow for the duct work) and repainted into a more modern paintscheme.
If I remember correctly (haven’t watched it for a while) I think the Green Frog DVD “The Golden Twilight of Postwar Steam Part 1: Pennsy’s Westend & Neighbors” shows some shots of Pennsy 4-4-4-4s pulling trains that include cars in the “Fleet of Modernism” paintscheme, but I’m not sure that any of the trains had just those cars. Seems to me most had a few older cars in the earlier tuscan red scheme.
Of course you’d have to do some research to find out which trains had which cars at what time. In the latter days of WW2 the Pennsy probably ran more passenger trains in a day than Amtrak does now in the whole US.
MR once addressed this issue of passenger car consists in a clinic; it was pointed out that in the immediate pre-AMTRAK days–particularly after the demise of the mail contracts–in 1968, I believe–head-end cars and diners were not always found in their traditional locations in a train consist. In an effort to avoid switching expense head-end cars and diners were often tacked onto the rear of a passenger train. I believe I only encountered this feature one time on a model pike.