Freight trains vary in lenght. I read somewhere that there is a ratio to create a prototypical length.
Example: If one HO freight car = 5 prototypical freight cars, then you would need 20 HO fright cars to simulate a 100 car freight.
Is there a formula?
I’ve never heard of any ratio other than 1:87… which would make one HO freight car = 1 prototypical freight car…
Anything else would just be personal interpretation, really.
How many 50’ Boxcars in a mile long freight?[}:)]
Mike,
I guess I’m not familiar with the ratio that you are referring to. The way I see it, It depends what you are running on your layout and how big it is in actually size. There were small trains (2-3, used on branchlines) and large trains (100+, used for through traffic) that were run on lines all over the US. It would depend on where and what you are modeling, as to the train length you should run, as well as the limitations of the layout that you have.
Tom
He’s talking about selective compression, since few of us have layouts big enough to run 100 car trains on (art least and have it not look ridiculous). I don’t recall every seeing a formula other than in one John Nerich article in MR in the late 80’s or early 90’s which was for determining how many home road cars vs various foreign road cars you would need to look realistic. It all comes down to what looks good. The maximum length train you can run on your layout depends on the length of your passing sidings. An occasional saw-by operation might add interest but it quickly becomes a pain if EVERY meet is like that - and real railroads tried to avoid the extra movements as much as possible. At the same time, using 2-3 units to pull 5 cars looks a bit silly too. Sure it happened sometimes ont he prototype, but not commonly. I’ve found that putting a pair of units on a 20 car train doesn’t look too silly at all, even if in the real world the loco could easily handle 20 cars by itself.
So basically, you need to work out what actually fits on your layout, and what looks decent. based on what fits, you can work out a formula to simulate the tonnage capability of various locomotives. ie, I designed for 20-25 car trains, so I could say a GP7 is good for 10 cars, anything more than 10 requires double heading, more than 20 requires three units, etc. This gives your yard operator/hostler an idea of how many locos should be brought out for a given train. And then you can play games with grades too. If the rating is 10 cars ont he flat, cut it down for grades (again even if the loco can pull it - most model locos can pull WAY more than they should), say 7 cars. So that 20 car 2-unit train is going to need at least a single helper on the grade.
–Randy
The trick is not in the number of cars. It’s in not being able to see the whole train at the same time. Example - Big Boy (or a Y-6b) came thundering around the curve in a high-sided cut, passed under a road overpass, shook the windows in a lineside house, then vanished behind an intervening hill. If the caboose was out of sight when the tender disappeared, how long was the train?
Even in the dessicated southwest there are plenty of places where the entire prototype train isn’t visible. Once you get into tall timber, there aren’t many places where it is.
This is one of the best arguments for leaving enough space between the track and the aisle for some realistic scenery.
Chuck
I don’t think it matters.
Real freight trains (on the NH and other roads) ranged from 1 to 125+ cars.
Traffic varied on days too.
For longer mainline point to point drags, I run what looks good so the train isn’t chasing its tail. Shorter locals, I go by what industries I have on my layout.
I’m agreeing with those above that the number of cars on a train really depends on the layout. Some large club layouts can probably get up to 100 pieces of rolling stock without look unrealistic. On my home layout ,15 is ok and 20 is pushing it. If I go too high, my locomotives will end up right behind my caboose.
The standard is normally 1 model railcar for 5 prototypical cars. You cant go wrong that way. Like moparman said, a 100 car prototype train should be portrayed as a 20 car model train.
For a typical home layout 5:1 would be about right. I run 30 car iron ore trains which seems good, prototype would be around 150-200. If I had a little more space I would run more cars though. [:)]
Having the engines in one town and then trying to switch cars in another town and the caboose 2 towns away looks really strange. But I have seen this so many times. The owner does not apparently care what it looks like. So I guess anything goes.
The trains should be sized to the layout. If you have a small layout then small trains should be the norm. The larger the layout the longer the trains.
The biggest thing is as tomikawaTT stated above is to not see the complete train all at once. I am using this method on my home layout as I only run 12 car trains. I use a lot of scenery blocks (hills and trees) to keep the operators eye on the train right in front of him and the train does seem longer. Also keeping the train speeds reasonably slow will make the trains seem longer.
Now the thing about double heading trains. Having 2 engine on the front of a 12 car train is also a little strange. But I use helpers on a number of my trains as I purposely put 4% grades on some sections to make the crews NEED helpers. This keeps the crews busy and slows down the operators that just have to speed around the layout. I am doing a prototypical layout in which the real railroad had a number of rather steep grades so having the helpers is correct.
As time goes on though I am looking for shorter engines so that I can double head a few of the train and keep the overall length of the trains about the same. I do not like the one train in 3 towns syndrome!
BOB H – Clarion, PA
According to Iain Rice, from normal viewing distances on a model railroad, a 13ft train looks long and people will over-estimate the number of cars. If you think about viewing angles it makes sense. As long as the train extends past your peripheral vision limits (about 115 degrees for most folks), you cannot tell the length of the train. What that 115 degree angle encompasses depends on your distance from the layout and whether the layout front is straight, convex, or concave. An around the wall layout gains by generally placing you close to the track in a somewhat concave environment. Your 115 degrees of vision encompasses less train, and the 13ft figure could be reduced.
Note that 13 ft is equivalent to 23 40 ft cars plus engine and caboose in HO, and about 37 cars plus engine and caboose in N. More cars than that will not contribute materially to the visual perception of a long train. Interesting that in HO, the 5:1 ratio comes out pretty close to the “100 car train” standard.
The other factor to make a “long” train on a model railroad believeable is spacing your towns at least 1.5 train lengths away from each other. Otherwise, the train being in 2 places at the same time tends to spoil the illusion. Of course, this will severely limit operational capabilities in a restricted space. The trade-off becomes desire to watch long trains roll versus switching and other operational opportunities.
One of the reasons I model a fictional Oregon short line about 1900.
My thoughts and observations; your decisons and choices
Fred W
What is the norm would you say for a 4x8 sized layout. I like to run grain trains, or like seeing grain trains anyway, and also like gondolas too. I know some of those grain trains can get to be pretty dang long. It’s hard to judge for a small layout. Everything looks kind of silly.
My rule of thumb for a table layout is train length should be limited to the length of table remaining after the turnback curves. For a 4x8 with 18" radius curves, this would typically be longest train is 56 inches or less. In HO, this is engine, caboose, and 6-7 40ft cars. Passing siding/runaround track length is also limiting factor - train minus the engine has to fit siding/runaround or you will have to use entire loop for switching a facing turnout spur. Probably not what you wanted to hear.
Iain Rice’s rule of thumb for shelf layout is train is no longer than 1/3 shelf length, and 1/4 shelf length is better.
Use small engines and cars and you can squeeze another car in a train on a small layout.
my thoughts; your choices
Fred W
I see local switching turns all the time that pull maybe 3-8 cars–that, and little lokeys like my 44 tonners would have their hands full pulling more than half a dozen or so cars at a time. In some ways things are easier for those who like little switchers and low-end local freight…for the long-train fan, the key is to get yourself close to the train and, as mentioned above, set things up so you can’t see the whole train at once.
My freights are generall 20 cars long for a mainline hotshot, and 3-15 cars for a local. 20 cars is about the minimum length for a train to look “right” on a largish layout. On most VERY large layouts that I operate on, 30 cars is the maximum train length, and it does look very impressive. Unfortunately, you need at least eight scale miles of mainline to support trains that long!
A train can be an engine according to the rulebook, but I think most of us would agree that to be a freight train you have to have at least one freight car. One famous picture of the Ma&Pa captures a freight train in silouette in the evening on a trestle - there is the engine, one boxcar, one caboose. After that it really is dependent on what you are trying to do and how much space you have.
Enjoy
Paul
On a small (4’x8’) layout you probably wouldn’t want to run two engines on a train. However real railroads do funny things sometimes. The line I live along was originally owned by the MN&S who from the late sixties on virtually always used two GM switchers on their way freights, and it rarely had more than 5-6 cars. The Soo Line took it over and they used back to back GP-9’s again usually with very short trains - 10+ cars was rare, I’ve seen two engines with one car in tow !!
As far as an engine by itself…on this same line, because it’s a deadend line, sometimes current operator Progressive Rail will run an engine by itself down to the end of the line to pull cars out of those industries, and then come back later with the cars it is going to leave for the industries.
I double-head my 44 tonners all the time–they ran that way on the prototype, in order to pull more than a half-dozen or so cars on the mainline.
I have videotaped some trains on friends railroad that were well in excess of 20 cars. It struck me as the monster flowed downgrade and into the downtown that I quit counting cars after about 20 or so.
30 cars is plenty long enough in my opinion. But I have assembled 60+ and doubled headed older Riverossi and AHM articuleds to get em started and this was on a single peice of track 40+ feet long. What am I to do with such a levithan on a layout with engines in one town, switching in the next town and the caboose 1-2 towns away as suggested by another poster on this thread?
I recall a black and white photo of a protoype mikado 2-8-2 pulling 16 cars up a slight grade while working steam and figure that is plenty big of a train.
I enjoy long monsters both in real life or in modeling but they have to be very “Filling” on the layouts except truly large ones which most of us will probably never be able to build ourselves.