Hi!
All things being equal, how much of a premium would you pay if a given loco has a DCC decoder installed. This would be for new or like new locos, and the decoders would be NCE or Digitrax and of course they would be properly installed and working.
Thanks!
I presume that you mean w/o sound, so I’d guess half the retail cost of the installed decoder, it being used and possibly abused.
Depends on whether it’s a motor-only with just basic lights fore & aft (maybe $20), motor-only with more-complex lighting, like ditch lights or a roof beacon (around $30-$40), or motor & sound ($75-$100).
In other words, I’m not going to pay too much more for loco + DCC than it would cost me to put it in myself. Yes, the manufacturer is going to have to pay some labor in the high-end cases above. They can simply be putting in the DCC circuit board instead of the normal lighting circuit board (virtually NO difference in labor for the cheapest of my examples), but I suspect that at least some of that labor cost will be balanced by buying the DCC decoder from its manufacturer (QSI, Soundtrax, Digitrax, or that other company…) at wholesale instead of retail.
Nada.
In fact, just yesterday I passed on a loco I might have bought (to serve as kitbash fodder) because it has a factory-installed decoder.
As I’ve mentioned in the past, I operate analog DC. I need a decoder as much as a tree needs a GPS locator - and I will not pay for something I have to discard unused.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
If one has the ability and the time, plus desire, to add the decoder/s oneself, then this is the way to go. I fit into that category. I would consider buying the locomotive with decoder ( sound/power ) “if” the price was right. I will NOT pay an extra $100 to have the decoder pre-installed by the manufacturer, I feel that that price is too high when I can do the job for 1/2 that cost. However, I certainly understand that there are people who do not feel comfortable installing any decoder into a locomotive, so the answer for them is rather obvious.
Both perfectly valid points! If you like pure DC, I have no problem with that. Heck, it leaves you more money to spend on other things like scenery!
Along the same lines, if I decided to model a SD22ECO (SD40-2 remotored with a 8-710-ECO), or a Progress Rails Genset, I would be considering if the different motor sounds significantly different (anyone know of a sound decoder manufacturer working on Cat sounds?) Different sound likely would mean different decoder.
Most of today’s engines are designed for easy installation of basic decoders. Ditch lights and sound are more complicated, but not outrageously so.
If you look at retail prices of the same engine with and without decoders, you will see that the pre-installed price is pretty close to what you would pay for the engine and the decoder separately. So, in terms of what you’re buying, they give you the installation free. (Remember, they get the decoders at a much bigger discount than you do.)
Now, if you are looking at after-market installation of a “premium” decoder in an engine which is not already made for decoder installation, then you should expect to pay something for the labor. I paid $35 labor to have a sound decoder installed in an HO-scale S1, above the cost of the decoder and speaker. I thought that was a fair price.
Yeah, that “time” bit is the killer. I’ve done four moderately-complex installs, plus several other trivial installs, and have decoders in-hand for several more. However, I’ve HAD those decoders in-hand for months, in some cases a year or more.
Getting five minutes of hobby time here, half an hour there, doesn’t leave much time for the fun projects… the soldering iron barely gets hot, and I have to take care of parental duties or some work-related escalation. There have also been complaints about too many “Plywood Pacific” or “Styrofoam Western” modules in our group lately, so I’ve taken time to work on ground cover (admittedly my weakest point.)
It all almost makes me look forward to my contract ending in a week… almost; I’ll have more time to do hobby stuff, but I should really be spending most of it on the job hunt.
The suppliers will probably provide a basic two or three function non-sound decoder to the purveyors of most engines for about $10-13/unit as a ballpark figure. Who knows that the installation cost amounts to if done by Atlas or BLI, but let’s say it amounts to $3/unit…feeling very generous today. They will want the cost and the installation back, plus a profit, so we could assume it adds about $40-ish to the stated MSRP. Subsequent sales/discounts squash that effect somewhat.
Can’t do it yourself? Find someone who can and it will be the decoder at his cost, say $13-15 plus shipping, and he’d probably be grateful if you added a generous tip of about $20 (some ask for $40) for his kindness to you.
All in all, it seems much cheaper, with warranty, to get the decoder installed for the $20-40 the manufacturers will ask of you.
-Crandell
LOL, Chuck, I think trees definitely need GPS locators to find out where they are, not they are going anywhere, but if you were stuck to the ground, wouldn’t you want to know your coordinates at least? [:P]
It depends on if I can get the same engine that is decoder ready or not. If it has a harness that I can plug the decoder into I would pay a extra $20.00 or so for the one that has the decoder. If you had to hard wire one and the other one has a decoder, maybe a extra $25, OK $30.00.
I can hard wire, but it is not in my top 10.
Cuda Ken
The current DCC equipped price and not a penny more.
[quote user=“Motley”]
tomikawaTT:
I need a decoder as much as a tree needs a GPS locator
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
LOL, Chuck, I think trees definitely need GPS locators to find out where they are, not they are going anywhere, but if you were stuck to the ground, wouldn’t you want to know your coordinates at least?
[quote user=“Motley”]
tomikawaTT:
I need a decoder as much as a tree needs a GPS locator
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
LOL, Chuck, I think trees definitely need GPS locators to find out where they are, not they are going anywhere, but if you were stuck to the ground, wouldn’t you want to know your coordinates at least?
Brian: Fully understand. I am retired but the HD jar has no bottom as anyone who has been married for many years will tell you, so getting time for MRR’g is really no different than when I was working and raising 4 children.
“I’m with Chuck on this one, although I have bought decoder-equipped used locos when the price was right. I take the decoders out and give them to someone who uses DCC.”
I have given a few away, but now I save them up, mostly from Bachmann locos, and sell them on Ebay. You would be amazed at what someone from Europe or Austraila will pay for a Bachmann decoder. I aways start them off at about 3 for $15, but usually get close to retail when the bidding is done.
And the price of Bachmann DCC locos is only a little more than when they were just DCC ready, so its like getting an extra discount!
Obviously for those who don’t know, like Chuck and Wayne I’m a DC operator. and my Train Engineer throttles do not like dual mode DCC decoders at all, so they all get taken out. AND, other than Bachmann where the decoder is basicly free, I don’t buy DCC locos unless the price is really right. So far that has only been three locos other than Bachmann.
Personally, I think the current trend of sound/DCC or just DCC ready makes the most sense for the manufacturers. It meets the needs of the largest possible groups of customers and gives everyone options.
Sheldon
Ummm, I guess I misunderstood this post. My first impression was that the OP had some engines he wanted to get rid of that did not have decoders in them already, and he was wondering what premium someone would pay for the same locos if he installed a decoder in them. Or alternately, he was looking at some engines into which someone else had installed a decoder, and he was wondering how much of a premium he should pay to get them.
He did say the decoders were NCE or Digitrax. Nothing was said about factory installed decoders.
And I know that some folks are not into DCC. But it seems to me that the appropriate, short and sweet answer from them could have been “zero, I use DC” to the how much premium would you pay question.
Just my opinion.
I have paid $40 extra for the dcc decoder and $100-$150 for dcc/sound equipped locomotives. These were Lenz / Tsunami decoders. Buying them separate and adding to DC locomotive would have resulted in no saving.
Enjoy
Paul
I generally buy Bachmann DCC OnBoard locos as they fit in my budget and have a basic decoder already installed. They suit my needs. For now, anyway. They control direction, speed and lights. I currently have no need for sound, and may never, as I find it annoying after about 5 mins., and to select a bell sound or a horn sound from 65 different options- well after the 20th horn sound, they all start to sound alike to me. I don’t need a decoder with 674 different functions. I would never use them all.
All things fair in love and war I would pay around $50 extra for a loco with a decoder installed. That would include the $20-$30 decoder {prices I have seen for them online } AND the installation which should certainly be able to be done for the other $20 at the factory during the manufacturing process.
Of course the problem with my logic here is that many of the Bachmann DCC OnBoard locos cost around the same $50 loco, decoder and all!
The problem I see with this question is that there are many different decoders and many different levels of functions of said decoders that a flat rate price may be difficult to determine. Just like the different DCC systems available. There is no flat rate that could apply to all of them!
Just my thoughts and opinions, others may vary.
If you DO use DCC/Sound, it’s sort of foolish to NOT get the sound equipped version of a loco, where the choice is offered for DCC ready or already equipped with DCC/Sound - the price difference from most vendors selling locos this way is usually right on $100. You can’t get the decoder and speaker(s) and get it installed for that price, at least if they are using QSI or Soundtraxx decoders. So if you’re already doign DCC/SOund, it’s a no brainer.
Now if the choice is DCC ready and DCC motor only, and they are charging more than $20 or so more for the decoder version, or maybe $30 if it has extra lights, it’s not really worth is as you cna buy your own decoder for less than that and fit it to the DCC Ready version. And as much as I’ve seen of the Bachmann locos with DCC motor decoders already installed (not the sound ones that use Tsunamis), I’d be spendign the extra anyway for a true quality decoder and the Bachmann decoder woudl end up who knows where. Not too many (if any) others are offerign this option, and there really is no reason for them to do so. If they make the non-decoder loco DCC Ready in the common sense use of the term, meaning, just plug in an 8 or 9 pin decoder and now it’s DCC, that form fits pretty much 100% of the market that does not do sound - DCC users spend a few minutes removing the shell to plug in the decoder, DC users have a loco that works properly out of the box.
The oddball out is DC/Sound. Honestly, I don’t know why they even bother - it doesn’t work very well. I have yet to see one that doesn;t have a huge dead band int he control and that will run reliably with a DC non-sound loco. And I don’t know how they could get around it, other than possibly make the DC sounds battery powered. Or make the loco run compeltely unrealistically, as you crawl around the yard there are no sounds but once you open it up the sound start.
&n