I’ve been contemplating trying to make my own turnouts… or at least a few
one thing i’ve read in several of the tutorials online is that they are “cheaper” than commercially available turnouts…
how much would somebody expect to have in each turnout cost wise… nothing fancy… no double slips or anything… just a regular ole turnout
It depends how much you want to invest ‘up front’. You can invest $200+ in Fast-Tracks jigs alone. Or you can just buy the rail, tie mateial and a few gauges to hand spike your turnouts. A lot of this will depend on your skill level. As far as materials, $2-3 per turnout is reasonable.
Jim
I estimate that my hand-laid plain-Jane #5 turnouts cost about $5 each in materials and tool time. This includes rail, spikes, ties cut from medium balsa sheet stock, rail joiners, solder, two flat head wire nails and a PC `experiment board’ throwbar.
The wire nails are my point pivots. The experiment board throwbar is cut from one of those PC boards with about a gazillion holes used to breadboard PC designs - the whole board yields about a dozen or fifteen, plus waste.
My tools?
I don’t use any kind of jigs, don’t solder to PC board ties and never, ever use acid flux or acid-core solder. My turnouts are built in place, so washing them in a baking soda solution is not an option.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Using Fast Track supplies it costs about $5 for PC ties, switch ties, and rail per turnout.
Tools will run about $100. Jigs for one size turnout will run about $200. These are one time costs.
You’ll also need small amounts of solder and flux per turnout.
Given that you can buy Atlas code 100 switches for $12, you need to make over 15 turnouts without the jigs to save money. With the jigs you need over 45 turnouts to save money. If you already have or figure to need a good soldering iron anyway and other tools for soldering then you save money right away if you don’t buy the jigs and after 30 if you do buy jigs.
If you’re in it just to save money it’s probably not worth it in HO scale.
Enjoy
Paul
That up front cost has always been an insurmountable obstacle for me.
Chuck, tell us more how you do that, build your turnouts in place. I always thought that you needed a jig to build a turnout.
Rich
I cut my PC board ties by myself, the big sheet is very cheap.
One turnout needs one or two rails, a dual gauge one needs three rails. And some time, a dual gauge turnouts takes more than 4 hours, a standard one 1.5 hours.
Here’s my latest HowTo.
Wolfgang
I have to note, that Iron Rooster’s price assessment simply isn’t correct.
The cost of jig at Fast Tracks is $113 (say, for a number 5 in HO), not $200. See their website for more info, but be sure to note the difference between the layout kits that come with other tools and all the parts to make 5 turnouts and the plain jigs.
Of the tools needed for hand laying track that Chuck nicely listed, almost all of them are and should be used for other purposes around the layout - they are not exclusively for hand laying track (the spiking pliers, and the multiple gauges being the exceptions). Those tools certainly don’t amount to $100, and it’s not an equal equation to list them as part of the amortization process for turnout building.
My estimates on the break even point for a Fast Tracks Jig has been 15; that is based on actual material costs and the jig investment versus an average of $15 turnouts (vs Peco, building in postal charges) for code 83/70. I’ve “amortized” my two jigs a long time ago (especially that number 6 double crossover - just build one of those to make the price of the jig go down fast!)
Comparing a hand layed turnout against any manufactured turnout (Atlas code 100 turnouts included) is hard, as none of the manufactured turnouts match NMRA specifications. So if that matters to you, and it may very well not, than hand laying (or using a jig) is the only way to go.
Hand laying also lets you do things you can’t do with any commercial turnout, such as use a single stock rail for an entire yard ladder.
The Fast Tracks jigs will enable you to successfully build functional and solid turnouts. I have not heard many complaints against them, other than the complaints on the start up costs. They are a great way to get your feet wet, and learn the process throu
In what way? I recently took detailed measurements of several of the Atlas code 83 turnouts on my layout - with a digital micrometer - and all the frog, guard rail and point clearances were within current NMRA specs.
Not to mention that they work perfectly with NMRA RP25 wheelsets. And I don’t use any code 88 wheels.
That said, good handlayed trackage can have advantages and I do hand lay custom pieces where needed. I have even hand layed a few curved turnouts using the points, throwbar and frog parts from Atlas code 83 turnouts - because I prefer short isolated frogs over more traditional wiring approaches for turnouts.
A fellow modeler in our local group does a lot with Fast Tracks, very nice, but his hand layed trackage was very nice before he bought Fast Tracks jigs, his is just “faster” now.
For many years I built my own turnouts, no PC board ties, assembled in place on Campbell ties, frogs built on a simple plywood jig, no problem - now I need too many and don’t want to spend the time or spend the money for Fast Tracks - a well painted and balasted Atlas code 83 looks and works just as good for less time and money - except for those special locations.
I solder all my rail joints so advantages like continuous rail sections in yard ladders are a moot point. All my rail is continuous until and electrial gap is required.
I never saw where you saved much or any money hand laying track - its more about craftsmanship and enjoyment if you enjoy those aspects of the hobby.
Sheldon
I have never hand laid a turnout, but if I ever do, it won’t be to save money, nor will it be for craftsmanship reasons or for the pure enjoyment of the hobby. It would be to custom fit what a commercial turnout will not.
Rich
Fast Track jigs for building a turnout:
HO #5 Turnout assembly fixture $113.13
#5 PointForm filing jig $51.40
Stock Aid rail filing tool $71.97
Total $236.67 for 1 turnout/rail size
(Since the Stock Aid rail filing tool is rail size specific and not turnout size specific you can spread the cost out over more than one turnout size. So with two turnouts the cost is $35.985 each making the total for each turnout $200.685)
Regardless of what Fast Tracks calls them, these all fit the definition of a jig
"b : a device used to maintain mechanically the correct positional relationship between a piece of work and the tool or between parts of work during assembly"
Enjoy
Paul
Welcome to the forums. Read, read, read. That is my best tip. There is software available to help design your layout.
We studied for a year before we started our first layout. Do you want to do operations, or do you want to do a continuous loop. I got hooked on operations, and we found ourselves ripping up track to make operations possible.
You might find a local group for mentoring.
Good luck, Sue
Sheldon Fast Tracks has been awarded the NMRA certificate of compliance for their TO’s Atlas has not. Atlas will not be awarded this so long as they continue to use their same jigs and building methods. Most Atlas TOs work fine most of the time. One of the more common issues that can easily be seen on the Atlas is to sight down the rails and see the wave in the rail.
Don’t get me wrong, I have Atlas TOs right now, and they are ok for a mass produced TO.
ratled
Agreed, as stated, that is the only reason I do it any more - commercial turnouts, even those from Atlas called “sub standard” or “low quality” by some, are just too good for the money and time savings.
Sheldon
Paul,
I enjoyed! i have to say though, really? That’s how you’d like to define the costs? I have no compunction in providing a new hobbyist the costs involved in going this route, but I do think they should be accurate. I’m not telling folks to go out and only do Fast Tracks, but having done it myself, I have a very solid idea of the actual costs involved.
The point form and stock aid are not necessary to use the turnout assembly fixture (the jig). A steady hand and a good file does the same role. Sure they help, but they are not necessary (nor, for that matter is the jig).
Fast Tracks doesn’t even consider the stock aid necessary by default, as it’s not included in their kit.
If you want to include the point form in your argument, fine. Fast Tracks sells a turnout kit (in this case, the number 5 you speak of) that includes the point form, and enough materials, including solder, to make 5 turnouts (not one) for $222.62.
If it makes you feel better to think this way to win a non-argument, that’s great. BTW, to the best of my knowledge, Atlas doesn’t make a No. 5 Turnout in Code 100, but the 4’s and 6’s seem to balance out a bit over $13 at retailers I can find.
Ratled, thanks for replying to Sheldon.
Sheldon, as I mentioned, that may not be an issue for the individual, but in case it is, than hand laying is the better option.
Guys,I been using Atlas Switches for years with zero problems…
I’ll tell you up front every time I read where a Atlas switch is “sub standard” or “low quality” I need to bite my tongue instead of asking by whose “standards”?
Such garbage doesn’t help the new modeler or the hobby in general.
As far as hand laid switches I’m not all that certain one needs a jig to make a switch…
Here’s my view.
I would think long and hard before investing (say) $200.00 for tools,jig etc that will be used a limited number of times.
But,on. the other hand what price enjoyment?
Heck no. I have been handlaying turnouts for 3 decades and never used a jig like ones Fast Tracks sells. Ever.
If you look in the back issues of magazines you can find many, many articles on how to handlay a turnout using many different approaches. I have built turnouts in place with no template, in place with templates, on the bench with templates, on the bench with PC board ties, built switch parts on the bench and then assembled the parts in place, bought commercial kits and modified them to fit my layout. I have used PC board ties, basswood ties, white pine ties. I have used PC board throwbars, plastic thowbars, hinged throwbars in a half dozen different variations.
The point?
Find the method you like, Try other methods to test them out. Borrow bits and pieces of techniques to make your preferred method easier or better. my conclusion is that virtually every variation works. Some are easier than others. Some are more precise than others, some are quicker than others, some have more versatility than others. But they all work.
As for cost, $40-50 for 33 pieces of rail, $9 for 1000 spikes, $18 for 500 ties which works out to about $3.75-$4.00 per switch. Throw in a buck or two for any other paint, hardware and linkages and you are getting a switch for about $5-$6. The real expense is time. You can lay an Atlas #6 in about 15 minutes, 30 minutes if you count waiting for the paint to dry if you paint the ties and rail. Handlaying a switch can take anywhere from an hour to three hours per switch, depending on your methods, how fast you work, the degree of detail applied, how many spikes you use, etc. Its not a race, but it does consume time.
I ha
I have two “what-I-did”'s at:
http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/retrack/
and code 55:
http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/1905/code_55/
Thank you if you visit
Harold
Rather than re-enter a two-page post from the past:
http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/p/95771/1119213.aspx#1119213
Have fun!
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Chuck,
Thanks for that link and for your tutorial.
Rich