How to speed up Amtrak trains on contract RRs sections

[BaltACD]

Midland briings up an important item. Amtrask is a system not a set of individual state RR passenger trains. There are many systems in this country. The airliine system, the telephone system,intercity bus lines, power networks, rural electrification, universal access to the internet. TV networks. Balkanization efforts need to end in the USA,

The attitude should be " I got mine now everyone in the USA will benefit just a little bit".

However, the overriding attitude in the USA these days is “I got mine, F off”

[7j43k]

7j43k
I do counter that if traveling by train makes you miserable, for all the reasons you list, that you should use a different means of travel.

I have traveled almost all of Amtrak’s routes. It’s been widely reported that train delays sour many to train travel. Things that drive passengers away threatens the viability of the system.

Don’t doubt it a bit. If trains traveled slower, they would blend in with the freights. As has been pointed out, speeding up the trains causes problems.

To my statement: Not everyone is physically or financially able to do those things.

Yes, of course not. Those that cannot will have to make other arrangements.

7j43k
Yes. I am arguing that that does not entitle them to expect the rest of the country should pay the extra cost of getting them to their destination several hours sooner.

Again all passengers would be affected by the viability of the system.

Yes. It’s terrible to have an un viable system.

[quote]

7j43k
But when all those people who are not having fun traveling by train finally wake up and fly, there will be more demand, and those flights will come back.

Small town airports are losing flights, wheth

[MidlandMike]

Your concern with keeping small town America connected with the rest of the country is commendable and proper. But that has nothing to do with increasing long distance passenger train speeds. Could you please summarize your point in a few words? I would appreciate it.

Slow trains discourage ridership. If ridership falls to the point that only those who have no other public option (such as loss of air service) are the only ones left riding the train, then even the train might not survive.

[7j43k]

7j43k
Your concern with keeping small town America connected with the rest of the country is commendable and proper. But that has nothing to do with increasing long distance passenger train speeds. Could you please summarize your point in a few words? I would appreciate it.

Slow trains discourage ridership.

Thanks.Well stated.

I will first state that I think LATE trains discourage ridership much more than slow. People make plans based on scheduled arrival. Missing that window can be very irritating.

Still, we should look at speeding up trains increasing ridership. In particular, what will be the increase in ridership for any particularly sized speed-up? It seems unlikely that you’d LOSE ridership from a speed-up, so the increase would come from people who wouldn’t have taken the train except for it going faster.

Now the question comes up: how big would the ridership increase be? And would that increased income offset the cost of the increase in speed?

Well, no, it wouldn’t. That’s my declaration, and if anyone really thinks I’m wrong there, I look forward to their data.

Since we now “accept” a financial loss for providing this increase in speed, we should decide how much of a loss is acceptable. Surely, there must be a limit–what is it?

If ridership falls to the point that only those who have no other public option (such as loss of air service) are the only ones left riding the train, then even the train might not survive.

Why wouldn’

[MidlandMike]

Now the question comes up: how big would the ridership increase be? And would that increased income offset the cost of the increase in speed? Well, no, it wouldn’t. That’s my declaration, and if anyone really thinks I’m wrong there, I look forward to their data.

Amtrak’s data shows that the HrSR Northeast Corridor makes a slight profit, while the slower LD and corridor are money losers. Of course the NEC operational costs don’t include ROW costs, but it is data, if that’s what you are looking for.

Maybe we will find out something once the CHI-STL corridor speed increase has run long enough to compare with pre-project passenger numbers. Also we might eventually be able to compare Brightline vs Amtrak in the Orlando-Miami corridor.