Does any one know of a method to turn a short consist, or just a loco and tender without resorting to a turn table.
I’m seeking something that is not a wye, or turntable, and that would use a minimum of space.
Is there such a track configuration or device? For HO that is.
Any help, with description,photo, or explanation would be appreciated.
I can’t think of one myself, and sure need one to solve my problem.
Thanks, albert
Hi Albert
That is a challenging question!
One thing that comes to mind is a removable track section that you could run the locomotive on to and then physically pick it up and reverse it. You will need side guards to keep things safe. You will also need a run around track longer than your train to get the engine to the front of the train. The cars won’t get turned - they will have to run in reverse. That’s ok if it is a freight train but it may not work so well for a passenger train. You will also have to do some switching to get the caboose on the proper end of the train, but the run around can be used for that too.
Theoretically you could make the section long enough to pick up the whole train (assuming a short train) but I think that is asking for a disaster if it is not held perfectly level. I suppose there could be solutions to address that problem too but turning the whole train seems very awkward (and dangerous) to me.
This is pure speculation on my part.
Let us know what you come up with.
Dave
Hi Albert
Thats a big ask.
The only ways to turn a loco I know of all take up space.
They are turn table, turning Triangle (in US language I think thats the Wye) or a balloon loop.
Balloon loops take up the most room you don’t mention what code of rail you are using but if its code 100 and you do mean a small loco you could go to a Wye made of 1st radius curves.
Then have what I have seen which is a Wye with a cattle dock on the triangle point track, and inside the Wye there was also a small one loco spur that had coal water and a small shed that had I don’t know what in it.
The only other alternative I can think of is a passing loop so the loco can run to the other end of the train and run tender first back home.
Running tender first is not recommended practice due to the vision restrictions caused by the tender. But it did happen on short runs on the full size railroads, where turning facilities where not available for one reason or another.
regards John
You’re sorta limited in your options for turning trains, whether a single car, a loco and tender, a short train, or a long train.
A loop will turn anything which will fit on it, but takes up a lot of space.
A turntable by itself (no roundhouse) takes up a lot less space, but its length limits what can be turned on it - a loco and tender, one passenger car at a time, or maybe a couple of freight cars at the same time.
A wye can be used to turn anything which will fit on the shortest of the three tracks associated with it.
The device which takes up the least layout space is the 0-5-0 switcher (for a loco and tender, usually a pair are required). [swg]
I have a turntable at one end of my point-to-point-to-point layout, and another to be built at one of the other end-points. These are/will be part of engine servicing facilities, so will take-up some room. The 90’ turntable shown below saves one scale foot of layout area, as all that would fit in this narrow and congested area was an 89’-er. [:-^] Layout depth, from fascia to backdrop, is 30"
My other in-service turning device is a wye. Its two access tracks are part of what represents a former mainline, with one leading to staging and the other to the balance of the layout - about 20’ of track for the former and a couple of hundred feet - the rest of the layout - for the latter. However, the limiting factor is the dead-end tail track, which terminates in a corner of the room. It will accommodate a pair of modest-size locos (two Mikados with tenders) or one loco with a full length passenger car, or a loco with a couple of freight cars. It’s main purpose is to turn locos, and the occasional piece of rolling stock, so the length is well-suited to its purpose. Because of its placement, it tak
Gidday Albert, as has already been said, what you want is a big ask.
However, on the assumption, from your previous posts that your’e modelling a harbour layout / scene, why not use a car float “cassette”. I have seen a track plan, can’t think where, at present, the car float was on a four wheeled “tea trolley” and could be rolled to another part of the layout and “plugged” in for extra operation. You would just have to turn it around. The down side is that you would have to take precautions not to lose the consist off the end and it still may take up to much room.
Good luck.
Don’t want to steal your post but doctorwayne what is the radius of your wye?
Cheers, the Bear.
Your post raises a lot of questions in my mind.
Why not use a turntable? In HO scale, a 90’ turntable takes up little space, less than a wye, and far less than a reverse loop or balloon track.
What is the problem that you are trying to solve? Why can’t you use a turntable, wye, or balloon track?
The reason that you can’t think of another alternative is that there probably is none other than to physically pick up the loco or consist and turn it around.
Rich
Does this have to be “on-layout,” or do you have the option to do something manual? Like a carfloat, an off-layout casette would give you the option to turn a short train with ease, although it’s not something a real railroad would do.
Real railroads didn’t turn all trains. They run around the cars and pulled them backwards. Most coachs had seats that faced either direction by flipping the back.
Forgot to add that some engines were equipped with a headlight on the tender so they could run backward in commuter service
The late Ben King, who had one of the most photogenic layouts ever constructed (and he built his own camera to photograph it!) had an “off stage” staging yard that consisted of a very large turntable that turned the entire train. His consists were short because the layout itself was small. The turntable itself was never the subject of an entire article, and seems to have been a sidebar to a larger article. The magazine index on this website gives no clue to which article might have the information. But it is in the nature of some ideas the British have used on their display layouts to keep things moving (cassettes are another idea – make one long enough and it could turn an entire short train).
Dave Nelson
What you want is the old Forney locomotives that were used by the Elevated lines in Manhattan.
They would leave the Bronx with about three cars behind a steam locomotives with the smokestack in front.
When it got to downtown Manhattan there was a two track island platform with a double scissor switch in front of it. The locomotive pulled in to which ever track was vacant and was trapped there. The locomotive from the previous train was on the other track and that locomotive would come out and connect to the cars, cut off the tail locomotive leaving it for the next train, and would lead the consist back to the Bronx running with the “tender” first.
The Forney actually did not have a tender, it was all built on a single frame and carried just enough coal in its bunker for a single round trip. When it got back to the Bronx, it was serviced. So there always was a spare locomotive idling downtown waiting to lead the next train north.
On the docks, a simple escape track would put a locomotive on the out bound end of your consist.
ROAR
Running tender first wasn’t common, but it happened often enough to not be rare. However in the steam era, railroads with a dead-end branch usually used a turntable big enough to handle the often smallish (2-6-0, 2-8-0 etc.) steam engines used on the branch. Many first generation diesels (RS-1, GP-7) were bought by railroads specifically for use on branch lines, so that they could eliminate the turntables at the end of the branch.
The mainline part of it seems to be 34", while the two leading to the tail track are a bit wider - perhaps 35" or 36". Most of the layout’s curves are on pre-cut 3/4" plywood subroadbed, but the wye is on piece of scrap plywood of the same thickness and I seem to recall that the wye-type turnout at the tail track is of a slightly gentler radius than that of the two on the main. If I’d been smarter when I built this area, I would have used a track placement and radii which put that third turnout not under the girder bridge. It’s the only powered turnout on the layout and the only one on which the points have become unsoldered from the tie/throw bar. [banghead]
Wayne
With no knowledge of your layout I can only show what I used to turn a train. This solution was conceived early in my modeling “5yr career” [:-^] I put a few commercial building on the balloon track to justify the track. One of these days I’ll get around to adding the details. This is an old picture and the lay out is 8’ longer now.
Who says “I make the rules”?
Lee
Thanks Wayne, Just couldn’t get a good reference point from your photos, As for Murphy…[sigh]
Cheers, the Bear.
What happened to the OP???
I was going to tell him all about the two 0-5-0 switchers I have…
Hey, MM44, keep your hands off of this thread. [(-D]
Rich
Ya Mobilman!
Yet another OP who seems to vanish into thin air. It has been more than two weeks since he posted the original question.
I think that it is somewhat impolite to ask a question and not acknowledge the answers.[2c]
Dave
I agree. Not only an acknowledgement of the replies, but also a little bit more elaboration by the OP on the issue that he has raised.
I think we all agree that if you eliminate the possibility of a turning a consist by means of a turntable, wye, or balloon track, there really aren’t anymore options available other than picking up the locos and turning them around by hand.
So, what is the OP trying to accomplish and why is he so limited in space that none of these options will work for him? What is the problem that he is trying to solve?
Rich
I agree, too, but our OP appears to be one who posts only intermittently. This year, he posted six times in April, once in June, and his sole offering here in October. He certainly doesn’t appear to be concerned about his post count. [swg]
Wayne