Are the prior Mantua pacifics worth a shot, including investing in decoder upgrading? The main issues: do they run ok (or not) on DCC or are they too toylike (e.g., is the boiler clearance over the frame too high?)? Could added details help? Any comments welcome.
The Mantua/Tyco Baltimore & Ohio 4-6-2 has been produced for just about 65 years, and over that time there have been some changes in the motors used. Moreover Mantua/Tyco itself went through some pretty considerable changes in terms of the reputation of the brand. Then Model Power produced the engine; now MRC is doing so. I suspect it is impossible to give a flat thumbs up or down to your question.
If memory serves the very oldest Mantua B&O Pacifics (I use that term because Mantua had a prior Pacific of formed brass sheet, which followed Reading lines to accomodate the motor in the bigger firebox) had both metal cabs and metal tenders. My first Mantua Pacific had a plastic cab and metal tender so I suspect it dated from the late 1950s to early 1960s - I bought it used. It was a smooth and quiet runner, a good puller too due to its weight, but a bit jerky looking going around 18" radius curves, and the valve gear and pilot and trailing truck created a bit of extraneous noise, as did the trucks under the very heavy tender. The motor resembled Pittman but was more likely Mantua’s own motor. Back in those days, Tyco was simply the trade name for Mantua’s RTR trains - same trains as the kits.
Another Pacific I bought used had a plastic cab and plastic tender. In fact it might be that the pilot was also plastic. And by that time Mantua, or Tyco if it was a RTR engine, had lost its reputation for quality. I think also the wire rods that simulated the throttle connection to the front of the boiler had been eliminated which is a pity as that was a neat bit of detail on the older versions.
By the 1970s the Tyco firm seemed to retire the Mantua name and I cannot speak to the quality of the Pacific but around that time Tyco’s reputation took a nose dive and their motors in particular seemed open to criticism. Eventually Tyco/Mantua started to play around with using the Mikado boiler on
Adding detail works but depends on how far you want to go. I made a Reading G-3 from a mantua red box which was produced in the 90s just before mantua was no more. It has a can motor and runs great. I sripped the boiler of everything and gave it a new crosshead from bowser parts, along with a scratch tender shell, new pilot all new details and the firebox and cab from a bachamnn I-10.
Doesn’t look mantua anymore but it is.
Does it have the enclosed gearbox or Can you see the drive gear and pinion ?
The enclosed gearbox, aka “power drive” runs much better and is easily converted to a can motor. In fact later models had a nice can motor from the factory.
This is one of interest, for sale in 2014 apparently.
I agree that the generation of the loco is an important consideration here. I bought one of their most recent runs about two years ago . Can motor and DCC ready. It’s a CP that does not appear to match any prototype. But appart from brass, there are no Pacifics out there that matches the CP prototypes. It does run very well and pulls great. I had issues with the connecting wires (there is a plug between the engine and the tender, that failed), but that was an easy fix. As for adding details to the engine, it’s not that difficult if you don’t change de dimensions of the boiler. I changed the pilot of a Mantua Mikado without great difficulty (using a Mehano leftover). I would recommend reading the articles about modifying steam locos reproduced in the Kalmbach book (“Steam Projects”). Lots of good tricks in there. One thing I learned is that you can easily remove molded details using a dremel with a sanding disc (with the proper safety equipment), and replace them with brass detail parts available from Bowser. By the way, you won’t save a lot of bucks doing these things, but it’s great fun.
Enjoy!
Simon
This one came to me used, from a train show, for pennies ($20). It had the traditional drive, worm on motor shaft, gear on drive axle, no gear box, and an open frame motor. In that condition it ran well, handled 18 inch curves, stayed on the track, and would creep at 5 scale miles per hour.
I put a can motor conversion kit into it. In those days I ordered it from Mantua. Now a days you might try Yardbird Trains. That dropped the creep speed down to tie-by-tie and dropped the peak current draw down to 500 mA, from an ampere and a skosh.
Turns out, the major dimensions, length, height, width, match the B&M P4 class almost exactly. So mine is now a P4. I replaced the poor looking plastic pilot with some brass bar stock, a cast brass pilot, twin air compressors and shields on the pilot deck.
It still runs DC as my layout is DC, and is one of my favorite locomotives.
The gear box story is kind of interesting and applies to the 3 larger engines, the Mikado, Hudson and Pacific. Originally, these engines were designed with the enclosed gear box (40s). This allows a much better worm/drive gear alignment.
At some point, they cheapened up the engines and placed the worm directly on the output shaft of the motor (60s to early 80s), moving the motor forward. The motor was bolted directly over the drive gear. The worm/drive gear mesh was controlled by adding or subtracting a washer under the motor mounting hole. This is the most common version around and not easily repowered unless you can find the upgrade kit.
Later, when Mantua split off from Tyco, they went back to the original style with the motor remote mounted via a rubber tube to the now again enclosed worm/drive gear (mid 80s). These ran very well and it was easy to add a can motor to. These motors may have been supplied by Bowser.
The last version from Mantua, (mid 90s) was a can motor with a flywheel. Mantua also began adding details and different pilots to the engines to update them.
The Walthers link you have referenced was the latest and greatest version from Model Power, after they purchased this line. This type includes the DCC plug.
Mine started life as a kit. Its the 2-8-2 with the pitman motor and enclosed gear box. NWSL recommended a 16MM dia motor but I grinded the inside of the boiler a little and fit in the 20mm can w/ 2 time well flywheels. Runs like a Kato diesel so I am adding a bunch of details to it.