How were the reviews of the initial MTH offerings? (I want to buy their K4 tomorrow)

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

Their products are generally top of the line now, but I have heard of some reviews being mixed about their first offerings.

I have the Bachmann Spectrum K4, nice detail for plastic, but too light for my taste. Broadway’s are scarce, and plus I want one that smokes and thats the pre-war mulitistripe1927 version (which only Bachmann and MTH released, but not Broadway).

One thing I noticed is that this is the only MTH HO model equipped with non-operating class lights or marker lamps, and also, they don’t use a real coal load in the tender, as they do with all of their later engines.

Does anybody have the MTH K4 and can you give me the pros or cons of it? I’m worried about spending $400 on one of their earliest offerings, companies mature in time, they learn from their mistakes. How does this model measure up, should I go for it?

I have heard of wireless tether problems in this particular model, and that the front trucks like to jump track on some curves, is this true?

Thanks. Your help would be much appreciated before I pay all that money.

2

That, my friend, is your opinion. Others will differ, including myself.

In terms of the model. I have a few friends that have owned one, but both have stopped working for one reason or another. They were both sent back to MTH and fixed.

Unfortunately, the problems came in the programming of the decoder. But the decoder can only be programmed beyond it’s address with a DCS system. Unfortunately, the DCS system will NOT run DCC locos at the same time the DCS system is active…it does offer a pass through for a DCC system, but that will not work at the same time.

So, for me, it comes down to what you want to accomplish with your layout. If you intend to buy nothing but MTH products, then their propitiatory DCS system is a must. If you want to also buy other people’s products that are DCC ready, then you need NOT consider the MTH model.

If you want to use DC, then, again, MTH is out of the picture. They run just horribly on DC.

The Bachmann K4 is dated and should be considered as such. They have upgraded the model recently, but still, you are correct, it is very light…but nothing a bit of BullFrog Snot cannot fix.

In terms of smoke, consider that that smoke has to come down somewhere…and that somewhere happens to be your rolling stock and rails. The former may or may not be an issue, but the latter is an issue that is detrimental to running trains in HO. In O scale, the models have enough weight to push through the oil on the tracks, but in HO we do not. So, if you want smoke, be prepared to clean your rails on a regular basis…and also clean your wheels on your locos and your rolling stock.

David B

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I must agree with David 100%.

And will add a few comments about the Bachmann loco. Yes it is light, but weight can be added and as David suggested, there is Bullfrogsnot.

I have not heard the Bachmann sound versions of the K4, but other Bachmann sound equiped locos seem to be getting good reviews dispite their modest cost and basic system.

As most of you know by now I have no interest in sound or DCC or DCS, but in any case, the Bachmann model is well detailed and seems like a much better value, unless the specific features of the MTH or BLI products are worth several hundred dollars to you.

If I modeled the PRR, I would have a bunch of those Bachmann locos and be adding weight, rather than just owning one or two much more expensive versions.

But, for me it is about modeling, and in a fashion that usually requires more than one of the same loco (how many K4’s did the PRR have) so one of each famous loco in the world from dozens of railroads is of no interest to me. Gee, I don’t fit the MTH customer mold very well do I. I guess that’s why I don’t own any of them.

Smoke? never on my layout.

Sheldon

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I own two of their locos so far, they are newer items though, but haven’t had any problems with them. I crank the smoke up on high, and haven’t had to clean the track anymore than usual over the last few months. Of course, you are right that it does collect dust on the rolling stock.

Lucky for me, the store was closed today (christmas weekend and all) so I have more time to think it over.

I’m trying to start a fleet of K4’s, its becoming one of my favorite engines, I mostly model the PRR now, along with the Norfolk and Western. Occasionally I like to now pick up a NYC engine too.

I guess I am a collector, but I don’t get locos from every railroad, I’m not into UP or other West coast railroads, the exception being Santa Fe, because of nostalgic memories of running the Super Chief during my childhood. I like Burlington too despite being midwestern.

I don’t get any european locos, although they look cool, same with Canadian. I don’t know, if MTH keeps producing more PRR locos, I will just keep buying them when I have the money to spare.

I like the Bachmann Spectrums, but my consolidation is breaking down after very little run time, to tell you the truth, it never really ran great to begin with, horrible at slow speeds, although my Spectrum K4 is much better. I guess I feel for plastic models, they are over priced. They do have nice sound systems, but I am not impressed with their slow speed performance or their lighting capabilities. Yeah, I know that trains of that era didn’t usually have bright headlights or lit cab interiors, but I really like the bright LEDs from MTH. They also have a rockin sound system that matches O gauge.

Their K4’s are really popular sellers, so much so, that they are all sold out over the internet. I figure they must be good because so many people are buying them and rarely selling them off on ebay.

5

A few more thoughts, from my point of view:

What does “breaking down” mean? Either it runs correctly or it does not? If is does not, return it to Bachmann, they have great service, but amittedly are a little slow.

Bachmann 2-8-0’s have poor slow speed on DC because of the RF supression caps on the circuit board, removing the caps gives tthem excelent slow speed. On DCC their slow speed seems to be very good from what I see. I have 5 Bachmann 2-8-0’s, all run great. I know lots of modelers with hundreds of hours on them, I know model groups who run them on display layouts. Sure they wear them out - after thousands of hours of continious use. I suspect MTH locos would fair no better.

Why is diecast better than plastic? other than adding some weight, I see no advantage. in fact, many of the locos with diecast boilers have details that look crude and oversized or “rounded” rather than crisp, in my opinion. All MTH locos look toylike to me on this point.

Jake, you are welcome to like what you like, but constantly asking for validation from the rest of us will not change what others like or the opinion of some of us that MTH is toylike or not suited to our modeling needs/wants for other reasons.

Sheldon

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Well, my Bachmann, the rods are rubbing against the wheels on one side causing a snapping noise and the engine also is wobbling from side to side when this happens. I don’t know why its doing this, maybe its something I did, it just happened spontaneously. I’m not saying its Bachmann’s fault at all, from what I understand, their conso

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Hello,

I’m afraid that I cannot give my opinion on MTH’s K-4 simply because I do not own one myself. I have made this post simply to remind you Jake, that you are asking about a MTH locomotive on the Model Railroader Forum. Whenever one of the three letter M words (MTH and MRC, as in sound decoders) is spoken of positivly, there will always be a group of users egar to share thier negitive experiences with the manufacture. Be careful, somtimes “facts” stated by other users of this forum could simply be opinions that they feel very strongly about. Make sure you check more than one source before making your final decision. Here is a link to the MRR review of the K-4: http://www.trains.com/mrr/default.aspx?c=a&id=486

Now,

My [2c] on MTH locomotives. I have personaly seen nothing to make me beleive MTH locomotives are as terrible as they are frequently discribed. The model I have payed the most attention to is the SD70ACe, as I am considering purchasing one. In September I saw one operate on DC on a local club layout, and found it to operate just like any other sound/DCC equipped loco operates on DC. I do have experience operating sound locomotives on DC, I own an Athearn F45 w/sound. As for appearence, I personally would prefer slightly oversized parts to parts that break/fall off when you breath on them (my Athearn RTR Dash 9-44CW is extreamly fragile). As for the smoke feature on steam loco’s, I do not think it is good for HO scale. HO scale has a much lower tolerence for “debris” on the track than larger scales. I also own O-scale MTH locotives and have concluded that, in my opinion, they are some of the best O-scale locomotives produced today. This is my opinon of MTH products.

I apoligize in advance

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Jake, I understand, to a point. I don’t know where you shop or what you have paid for any Bachmann pieces you may have, but they are generally more heavily discounted than BLI or MTH and have lower retail prices to begin with. That makes them much less expensive if you shop around.

I have 8 Spectrum 2-8-0’s - average price $80, 8 Spectrum 4-8-2 Heavies - average price $100, 3 USRA 2-6-6-2’s - average price $180. Even if these would have been sound versions, prices would only be 50-75 more at the stores I shop at. No where near the $400 prices of BLI Paragon and MTH.

Many Spectrum locos pull fine out of the box, some are a little light. The USRA heavy 4-8-2 has a die cast boiler (and has much better detail than any MTH loco) and pulls very well. The 2-8-0’s pull well in my opinion. The N&W J and the K4 are a little light.

The 10 wheeler and 4-4-0 are die cast and pull very well for their small size. The Russian Decopod is only so-so.

The shays pull good, again, for that type of loco. The 2-10-2 is die cast but does not pull quite as well as the heavy 4-8-2. The regular line Berkshire is better looking than the Proto but is a little light, but after adding 5 oz, which was real easy to do, mine pulls great. Mine are actually converted into super power Lima Mikado’s similar to the DT&I 800 series locos.

Judging all of ANY companies products based on one item they make is a bad idea. So when some says “my Spectrum N&W J didn’t pull well”, don’t assume that about the rest of the line. And, MTH items should also each be judged on their merrits.

My biggest problem with MTH is th

9

Rjake:

Are you DC or DCC? The reason I ask, is that most dual-mode locos I’ve seen (and I’ve bought a couple) do not run well on DC until you’re pumping up the control to the upper 1/4 quadrant. The sound takes so much voltage to start up that I’ve found it impossible to run dual-mode locos in conjunction with regular DC motive power.

I’ve got several BLI dual-mode locos that, because of that, are now residing in their boxes, awaiting selling.

Everything I’ve read about the MTH locos on plain old DC gives me the impression that they run rather poorly and nowhere near the capabilities that they show on either DCC or MTH’s DCS system. From what I understand, the MTH locos need almost 18-20 volts DC to run properly, and most DC power packs are only rated 12 volts–or at the most, about 16 volts. Even my excellent ControlMaster 20 only puts out a maximum of 12 volts–definitely enough to run multiples of my DC locos.

So if you are DC, I’d be very leery of getting top performance out of an MTH loco.

Just my thoughts.

Tom [:)]

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I’m DCC all the way, I will never go back to DC, too much wiring for me.

So far, I’m thrilled with the peformance of MTH locos on my MRC Prodigy Advanced system. Sometimes there are some programming problems, but generally, they run great.

I don’t know much about DCS, I doubt I will ever get it though, because I like to run Broadway Limited locos just as much if not more than MTH. The only thing I like about DCS is that you can quill the whistles which you can’t do on Prodigy.

I’m thinking about sometime getting NCE for the quillable whistle features, but still, this is only for Broadway’s. I like the simplicity of Prodigy too, I’ve heard that NCE and Digitrax are a little more complicated to use, and aren’t as beginner

11

Yeah I guess you have a point, plastic steamers do have their strong points. I would never give up my Spectrum K4’s, the detailing, although fragile, is nice and crisp.

Thats the nice thing about both N scale and HO scale, most models have that ultra sharp detail that O gauge die cast tends to gloss over. This Christmas, I pulled out a top of the line O gauge set and ran it on the carpet. Although I liked the weight, it did look a tad clunky and toyish, and it made me count my blessings that HO offers such highly detailed models, they aren’t for kids (young kids that is), but for the serious hobbyist.

If I were in your shoes or in any other average modeler’s position, I wouldn’t want MTH pushing out that aspect of the smaller scales either, so I understand where you are coming from. I like picking up an MTH steamer here and there, but I wouldn’t want them to overcrowd my layout, so to speak. In my opinion, they work well as adjunct engines for collectors and operators (putting aside the DCS issue).

After taking another careful examination of the MTH K4, you are right, some of it looks sloppy compared to Bachmann or Broadway Limited. I may still pick one up because of the synchronized smoke, but its the price tag that kills me. $400? I don’t know, I could get two more spectrum K4’s for that price, and I could consist them without any

12

You can always go to the source and check out the initial review by MR. The whistle on the MTH K4 is the Banshee type, which was not used normally on post war K4’s.

HO Pennsylvania K4 Pacific offers power and special effectsReviewed in the July 2006 issue

By David Popp, Neil Besougloff, and Jim Hediger
Published: Sunday, May 21, 2006



Pennsylvania HO K4 Pacific
Pennsylvania HO K4 Pacific


This powerful HO scale model of the Pennsylvania RR’s classic K4 Pacific is MTH Electric Trains’ first HO scale locomotive. It has a long list of features, including properly timed smoke and sound effects and an automatic electronic system that operates on layouts using DC, Digital Command Control (DCC), or the MTH Digital Control System (DCS).

The prototype. The Pennsylvania RR’s K4s were some of America’s best known steam passenger locomotives. Built between 1917 and 192
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The whistle in that MTH advertisement video was just a sample, taken from their O gauge version.

Their HO K4 whistle now sounds very prototypical in my opinion, more so than the high pitched schrill toot-toot found on the Spectrum version.

Here is a video of somebody running an MTH K4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VX4R4r3OD0

The MTH class J had the Daylight whistle in MTH’s advertisement video. When I got mine, it was the right steamboat like whistle, just like the actual prototype.

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Hi rjake,

Sorry I didn’t see this thread earlier. Let me be the first to say I do own the MTH K4 pacific (2 in fact) and enjoy them very much. MTH has made a couple changes to the design of their HO engines since the K4, but they were a VERY good first effort. For starters, you can read a review I posted on this forum back in 2006 when they came out.

A Review of the MTH HO PRR K4 Pacific - part 1# A Review of the MTH HO PRR K4 Pacific - part 2

Since writing that review I’ve put a lot more miles on these engines and, of course, we now have the newer MTH engines for comparison. Here are some of the positives with the MTH K4’s. The drive train is a mechanical and electronic jewel. Both of my engines still run smooth from 1 smph on up and are virtually silent with the sound turned off. I frequently double head my K4’s under DCC, which works beatuifully with universal consisting (“old style” in NCE parlence). The sound is as good or better than any other DCC sound decoder. Unfortunately, the K4’s pre-date the playable whistle feature, but you can’t access that with DCC anyway. The smoke unit operation is as good as all the MTH engines. I know a lot of people in HO don’t care for smoke, but smoke has never been this good before. Just have a look at my posting photo to the left. That’s what an MTH smoke unit can do.

Now lets address some of the differences compared to the newer MTH engines. The drawbar design on the K4’s was a little different. There are still just two electrical contacts built into the drawbar, but they have to make contact with two spring tabs under the tender. The drawbar has two plastic studs that clip into a

15

I played the video and the whistle is the post war PRR passenger whistle and sound decent. I had emailed MTH and asked for that whistle and was told the only one available was the Banshee which the K4’s did have in the twenties and thirties.

Can the bell be speeded up? The K4’s had an air ringer and the bell ringing was fairly fast. My dad always liked the bell sound on the K4’s that ran past our town to St. Louis. We got to see many of them including two of the streamlined versions and the 5399 with poppet valves. It was a time to remember.

Thanks for the video link.

CZ

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[quote user=“dave hikel”]

Hi rjake,

Sorry I didn’t see this thread earlier. Let me be the first to say I do own the MTH K4 pacific (2 in fact) and enjoy them very much. MTH has made a couple changes to the design of their HO engines since the K4, but they were a VERY good first effort. For starters, you can read a review I posted on this forum back in 2006 when they came out.

A Review of the MTH HO PRR K4 Pacific - part 1# A Review of the MTH HO PRR K4 Pacific - part 2

Since writing that review I’ve put a lot more miles on these engines and, of course, we now have the newer MTH engines for comparison. Here are some of the positives with the MTH K4’s. The drive train is a mechanical and electronic jewel. Both of my engines still run smooth from 1 smph on up and are virtually silent with the sound turned off. I frequently double head my K4’s under DCC, which works beatuifully with universal consisting (“old style” in NCE parlence). The sound is as good or better than any other DCC sound decoder. Unfortunately, the K4’s pre-date the playable whistle feature, but you can’t access that with DCC anyway. The smoke unit operation is as good as all the MTH engines. I know a lot of people in HO don’t care for smoke, but smoke has never been this good before. Just have a look at my posting photo to the left. That’s what an MTH smoke unit can do.

Now lets address some of the differences compared to the newer MTH engines. The drawbar design on the K4’s was a little different. There are still just two electrical contacts built into the drawbar, but they have to make contact with two spring tabs under the tender. The drawbar has two plastic studs that clip into a recie

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Sure, no problem. Dave might know the answer to your question about the bell, I honestly don’t know.

Thats great you got to see streamlined K4’s in person. There is excellent footage of streamlined K4’s in action in the 1939 movie “The Broadway Limited”, its a dated comedy, not the best, but the whole movie is train footage and it shows real Fleet of Modernism cars (my favorite paint scheme of all time).

You can watch it online if you haven’t

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I have pictures of the 3768 at my home town of Effingham Illinois on my photobucket page. My dad was a railfan and we spent a lot of time at the tracks watching the PRR in the late forties and early fifties before they pulled steam in 1954 off of the St. Louis line.

If you don’t mind viewing a few of the newer steam pictures, go to the photobucket below and view the forties and fifties pictures that I have posted of the PRR. They are mostly at the end of the steam page.

http://s197.photobucket.com/albums/aa205/City_train_usa/Trains%20New%20Era/Trains%20Steam/?start=all

CZ

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Thanks for the pics CZ.

Well, I just bought one, overall it runs great, amazing sound, but wow, the smoke on this one smells terrible. Smells like burnt popcorn or fried electronics, but I can’t imagine the unit being damaged, the smoke output is quite large on DC when I turned it up as a test, everything runs fine, but man, the smell is just god awful.

I think I remember testing another K4 at my LHS last year, and I think the same burnt smell was there, so I doubt its my unit. Dave, does yours smell bad too? I think there was one poster on here that said he ran O gauge smokers for years and never had bad allergies or asthma kick in until he ran the HO K4, there was just something about the fluid maybe? [:O]

I hope this can be remedied by getting coal scented fluid, otherwise I may have to keep the switch off permanently. The smell is enough to make you almost vomit.

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Glad you looked at the pictures. I have more pictures to upload of various K4’s without the streamlining also but have not got back to that project.

The smoke liquid normally smells a little, but I don’t remember any of the smoke units that was really bad smelling. Try purchasing some other type of smoke liquid refills since it all seems to work about the same. As you said, you can always shut it off and not have the smoke since it will get on everything in the room over time and the oil will cause other problems.

I was testing the # scale Challenger in my office room one day and noticed the whole room had filled with the smoke and was coating my computer screen and keyboard also. This locomotive has two very large smoke units for the dual stacks and can fill a room in about ten minutes. The good thing about the smoke is it can be turned on and off by