We have two peninusulas 60" across, top and bottom stacked on top of one another.
The bottom is a service terminal (roundhouse, coaling tower etc)
The top is a mountain scene (plaster over cardboard strips) (Mountain in green)
The problem: How do you get one to suspend over the other without putting bulky legs up on the outside? The idea here is to keep the legs out of sight of the service terminal so the view will not be ruined.
Either frame the top section to cantilever or suspend the top section with wires coming down from the ceiling.
I would run 2x4’s verticly from the ceiling and through the mountain to support the benchwork. I would diagonally brace them with 1x from somewhere above the mountain to the ceiling. I would think you want the lumber to be stout as to minimize shifting if bumped. Maybe paint them black to make them disappear the best you could or attach a sky backdrop to them where they protrude out of the mountains. You may have to run a wire or two at the edges on the right side.
Yup, suspend the top one from the ceiling. The lower level can have ordinary legs. Then there would be absolutely no physical connections between the upper and lower.
–Randy
Similar to the other ideas, metal tie rods could be used from the cieling as well, may be less visable and could be painted to match the sky.
A Klingon anti gravity device hidden inside the mountain scenery would work great for this application. Unfortunately science fiction and real life does not go hand in hand. What the other responders have suggested is the only viable solution to your problem. But as a side note the anti gravity thing would be cool until a power failure sends the top crashing down.
Beam me up Scotty!
Pete
Heck, for that matter, heavy test pound fish line would do the trick and be nearly invisible.
It looks like you have about a 10 foot length on these. You should be able to use a lightweight frame and a base material of 2-inch foam. For the frame, 1x4 lumber would probably do the job. Steel stud material (like a 2x4, but metal) would probably be both lighter and stronger. Make the mountain completely hollow, and use lightweight materials there, too. (Consider Bragdon foam for lightweight hardshell and rock castings.)
You can make this light enough to span 10 feet, if you avoid heavy construction materials.
Your posting infers that your only concern here is that the upper level benchwork AT THIS LOCATION in no way will interfer with observation of the terminal area below. One way–and this is probably the most practical way–to accomplish this is to support the lower level of your peninsula on the floor while, as has been mentioned, suspending the upper level from the ceiling. I am very conscious of the fact that the construction of your structure might prohibit that.
Another way is supporting the upper level with some sort of a cantilever design; somewhere up this peninusla the view interference imperative is going to cancel and at that point you could construct a cribbing structure hefty enough to support this/these cantilever(s) which will become the major component of the benchwork for the upper level of your peninsula. The major problem here is insuring that the cribbing/cantilever structure is designed with enough heft to support the weight of the peninsula . . . . . . . . . . and, of course, the longer this peninsula is beyond the location of the cribbing structure the heftier(?) the material required. It might be that you may even have to go to 2X6s or even 2X8s for adequate support. You need to acquire a carpentry book which will give strength factors regarding different lumber specifications.
There is one other possible solution for this problem but this one is going to be highly dependent upon several factors regarding the room in which this layout is to be built__. If__ there is a wall in relative close proximity to the end of the open end of the peninsula then it might be possible to use the wall studs as supports for a cantilever structure crossing the aisleway and supporting the layout’s upper level. The distance to be transversed is, of course, going to determine the
Thanks for the replies guys.
Suspending it from the ceiling was my primary idea too. But I never actually saw anyone suspect their layout from floor joist above. ?Floor shake issues from the floor above?
It’s in a basement with engineered floor joist above. The lowest point is about 7’6" (ductwork) I could run the support beams inside the mountain to hide them.
Piping painted blue sounds best, but I’m not sure how I would secure the piping. (From the floor joist above.) I guess I could mount the frame on more pipes secured with a upside down t-fitting
wonders how hard it is to thread iron pipe?
You say it is a peninsula, so no wall access for cantilevering. As mentioned above, suspension from the ceiling is one option, but it would have to be very sturdy or running an engine will vibrate things like it is a rope bridge. Fishing line… no.
A coupla other things to think about alone or in combination.
If you have a few chimneys, run a metal brace up (threaded rod/rebar) from inside the chimney.
At the end of the peninsula, add a viewblock. Inside the viewblock is where the support would go. Inside this “wall” would be scenic view past the engine facility. The outside of the “wall” is where you could post signs, routing card boxes, or pictures. This should provide a good base for the upper bench work. It is also visible and reduce the issue of bumping thin supports.
This problem illustrates the difference between an architect and an engineer.
Put a smoke stack on a boiler house next to the round hous. Run a threaded rod or pipe up through the smoke stack to support the upper level. Hide it in smoke if need be.
Alternatively put in tall building on either side of the benchwork (urban theme) and run supports (rod or metal angles) up thru the buildings.
How do you support the rest of the upper level over the rest of the layout?
I would connect the furthest left turntable lead to those on the right and put a backdrop down the space between the left side of the loop and the engine facilities.
If you suspend the top deck from the ceiling you will need to cross the supports so you get “sway bracing”, Monofiliment will stretch over time and allow not only swaying but bouncing also. I would go with threaded rods.
This is a steel rod that is threaded its entire length. It is incredibly strong. It would only take one hanging down from your ceiling through the middle of your mountain to support your whole peninsula. You could use steel studs, angle iron or scrap hardwood to go out like arms from the rod to hold up the table. If it is attached properly in the ceiling the peninsula should not move. I think I would go with a 1/2" rod just because I like overkill. With it being threaded its entire length you can adjust until your hearts content.
I have used these for many projects with great success.[:)]
Brent
Have you considered using long Glue-Lam I-beams as main supports for the upper level? They can be supported back behind the ‘no pillars here’ point and are plenty strong enough to hold up anything short of lead bricks, even with a long unsupported span.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with upper levels supported from below)
You may not be able to see supports in the middle. It depends on what your shelf heights are.
Sorry, Pete, but a more realistic approach would be to contact Bullwinkle and find out where that mountain made of Upsadasium is located.
My first thought was of using the chimney idea or several of them. Wooden dowels or a smooth metal rod rather than threaded. The threads would be harder to hide. Just have the end threaded so you can make some adjustment, if necessary. By using the smooth surface you could wrap brickwork around it or paint it to look like brick. Do this high enough so tht your normal viewing angle sees only brickwork. Paint the top portion of the rod/post sky color or the color of your outer walls, which will be the background color if you bend down that low.
You will need a strong attachment where the pennisula attaches to the main outer shelf to keep it from moving laterally.
Good luck.
Marlon.
Upsadasium mountain was bought by Woodtime celery years ago and the cost is way too much for even the richest modeler. The Airforce uses the stuff to get their planes off the ground and the navy uses it to keep the subs from floating. I tried the downsyupsy they had for my water scene but the mud settled to the top and it leaked into the hillsides staining my barns a bloody red color instead of the bright yellow like real barns. It was a big mess and the dog had to eat half the layout to clean it up.
If we can’t have fun what can we have?
Pete
wonders how hard it is to thread iron pipe?
Not hard if you have the equipment. Home Depot will cut and thread as will some hardware stores, and of course plumbers, pipefitters, and plumbing supply houses. If you want to try it yourself, you can buy relatively inexpensive pipe die set at Harbor Freight. You will also need cutting oil, and a means to hold the pipe stationary while you thread it. (usually a vise). I do plumbing and piping for a living, and have all the tools I need to do the job but MUCH prefer buying it cut and threaded to fit, because it tends to be a messy/oily job
Kevin