I have been reading a number of posts this morning where our fellow modelers are down on their luck, out of work, limited funds, medical issues. I feel so bad for all of this guys and wish them well.
I also read about another of modelers who are interested in building small layouts either because they only have limited space or are short of funds to go larger.
I thought I would do my part to cheer everyone up with an upbeat question.
What would you do if you had virtually unlimited space, say a space measuring 100’ x 100’, unlimited funds, and the time to build and landscape a huge layout? What would you do? What would you model? How would you landscape it?
With those conditions I think I’d start a round robin club to get some help building. My understanding is that many large layouts aren’t done by the owner alone but with the help of friends.
Are we talking about Timboy again? I thought he’d been banished to the “other” forum. [swg]
But to answer your question directly, I would do something very similar to what he’s up to with his new layout. I’d build a layout where the scenery dwarfed the trains. A simple track plan, but with a long enough mainline that it actually took the train an appreciable amount of time to get from point A to point B. And most of that time spent running through open country. Hey, I’m a Midwesterner, and that’s how our trains roll…
To be honest, I wouldn’t. My dream layout space is 24ft x 20ft, and I’m not sure that wouldn’t be too much. There’s too much more to life than model railroading. I guess I’m a dabbler at heart.
The time to build and landscape a large layout is one thing. Time to maintain it is another. All the great home layouts require substantial work by the owner prior to the scheduled operating sessions. John Allen reportedly wondered at times if his layout was too big for him to keep up with - and he had both time and money.
Linn Westcott once postulated in an editorial that limiting a home layout to less than 20 turnouts - his measure of layout complexity - kept it manageable over the long term. While I think double that number could be managed in this era of RTR, the number of turnouts is a good measure of layout complexity. When my dreams start to get too big, I re-read that editorial.
Bottom line is that I would probably get bored creating forest for thousands of square feet of scenery, or bored laying thousands of feet of track. I would certainly get bored with wiring the beast - even with DCC and its feeders. Acquiring the car and locomotive rosters would likely get tiresome and lose it’s sparkle after the first 50 or so locomotives or 100+ cars.
Perhaps if it were kept very simple, with my 24 x 20 track plan stretched into the space, and a way was invented to quickly scenic long stretches of single track…
You are correct, stebby, the forum administrators did, indeed, banish Timboy from all forums except the Toy Trains forum. Nobody here on this forum cared one hoot for his toy train fetish. But, having said that, it may be worth a moment of everyone’s time to take a peek at the CTT forum and Tim’s related blog to see what he is up to. Pretty nice even though it is S scale.
I think I would have liked a fairly long (and not very deep) walk-in and walk-along layout, where trains run along both sides of peninsulas, maybe in a mushroom type design, mostly single track line with passing sidings for 20-30 car trains.
A smaller railroad or not so busy division of a bigger railroad in the midwest in the late 1940s or early 1950s - some lumber, some ore, mostly 40-foot boxcars, early diesels, some 2-8-0 steam engines, cabooses, maybe half a dozen or so small towns and industries, spaced 5-10 typical train lengths apart, a couple of interchange locations, a bigger (say 15-20 foot long) urban area at one end of the layout, with a car ferry across the great lakes at the end of the layout.
Maybe a yard or two - no bigger than 4-5 tracks, an engine service facility at one end of the line and maybe a small a turntable or turning wye at one or two other locations.
Enough double ended staging so an operating group of 4-6 people could running maybe 10-15 trains during a three-four hour session (or a single operator could run a train schedule sequentially).
A chance both to run trains over the road, and do some switching.
Not gonna happen, but you asked for dreams, didn’t you?
Grin,
Stein, heading back to the honey-do task of dismantling the kid’s trampoline for the winter
Even with that much space available, unlimited funds & the time to build it, I would not touch a layout of such a size, because I would never be able to come anywhere near to running a train in a time span in which I´d feel comfortable. I´d like to build a layout for my own fun and entertainment, not for my yet unborn grandchildren!
Make the room a little smaller, add a friend or two to help me build it, and the Lakeside Lines RR featured in the November issue of MR comes very close to what I would call a dream layout.
LOL. Actually If I had unlimited funds I’d have a large layout built by one or more reputable builders.
Yes, I know that would make me a “Non model railroader” in some peoples eyes but I’d use my time for other things and simply enjoy a large layout completed or at least close [:D].
You know, in thinking it over I don’t knwo that I’d WANT to attempt something so large. It’s too much for one person to build by themselves (well, maybe if I had started at 16 and kept the same focus my entire life…). But as soon as you get other peopel involved you end up doing too much people management. Even if you have all the money and this is YOUR layout 100% paid for with your sudden fortune (and not a club where everyone contributes and needs to be accomodated), there’s still much to do in keeping everyone’s focus on YOUR vision for YOUR layout - after a while it wouldn’t be any fun anymore and the project would slowly die off and never be completed.
As for having a custom builder do it, even if I had all the money in the world I don’t think I’d want to do that. I have too much fun building. And to have them only ‘mostly’ finish it, that leaves pretty much just the part I am least skilled at and least inclined to finish - the scenery.
I don’t doubt that if you’re honest with yourself, we’ve ALL had dreams of a monster size layout. How practical that is ends up being another matter. I think the more you lean towards prototypical accuracy (be it replicating an actual railroad or proto-freelancing), the less practical that monster dream layout becomes.
I have to agree with Fred above. That much layout would start to be a job not a hobby.
I am getting ready to start building my “big” layout in my basement in S scale. I’ll be using about 850 sq ft. One goal is to limit the turnout count to 75. Rolling stock is estimated to be about 150 cars max and locomotives about 14 max, although the layout should be operable with half that. By keeping the aisles to 3 ft or greater the amount of layout surface to be scenic will reduced.
One concern I have is that it might still be too big. I plan to start at one terminal and build toward the the other. If it gets too big before I’m finished, I put in a return loop for the second terminal.
I think if I had a space that big, I would like to open it up to everyone, but I would especially welcome people who through no fault of their own have neither the space or the funds to get into or back into the hobby.
If they were willing to contribute their time and fellowship in a positive cooperative manner they would be most welcome.
There are people able to build and design a MRR better than I ever could and I would love to have imput from people like that.
My only condition of supplying the space and material would be that it has to be based on the Canadian Pacific in Western Canada and have big Mountains. I would love to see it come together. Now where’s that lottery ticket?[:)]
Ya know, I just posted in the thread, “What a year Makes” and yeah, it is more of a sad thread, most people, it seems, have lost, rather than gained.
Good thread, and I will bite! I could use a smile.
I dunno know about 100x100 but I would have a ball with it. But just for giggles, I got a really big honking building. I do admit, I like the idea of making big enough for freinds to come over and enjoy, That much, you almost have to share the love… so…
With a room that big, dont need it all for the layout. I would have a area for sweet work shop to do my work, cut down on dust, paint fumes etc. Have a “crew area” to relax. A section to store supplies, kits and another for my train cars and power to display/store. I would also build out a section that had huge shelves, sorta of like a locker room so freinds could keep there power and rolling stock there in the building.
I would have some big yards to operate out of and I would have a ball designing just long main line runs where you could watch multi-powere, 50+ car trains open up and run the country side. There would be a lot of operating with industires and with that much room, I would model some in full size such as a steel mill, refinery, a couple of the big mid-west grain silo terminals and a container yard.
I would also have the layout set so I could work my two eras. (I love it all, I cant commit) One side, the late 70’s to modern day and the other, transistion era. Layout would be big enough that you would have plenty of room to design towns and operations in the right era and seperate them with the long runs through the countryside. And oh yeah, I would have some floor to ceiling mountains too!
I agree with Brent, CP Rail, Western Canada, but with small towns no large cities, and big mountains and tunnels. Transition era to run both steam and diesel. Freight and passenger service. Maybe even add a narrow gauge line in as well or “adjust” portions of prototypical lines to narrow gauge.
Well, with unlimited funds, and since I am retired, I would hire one or two of the layout building companies to do it for me. And since I have been in model railroading for 40 years and have built a few layouts, I would design a walk-around layout that went from the water to the mountains. I would design it primarily for operations and invite other modelers to help me operate it. I would also use Rail-Op for the operations program and not car cards.
NOTE: Our club uses car cards, and I use Rail-Op at home, thus my preference for Rail-Op.
Like others said that may be too big, but if I were stuck with it I would do an around the wall with a peninsula or two in the center. The area around the wall would maybe be 30 inches deep at the most, and the peninsulas would be the loco and yard facilities. I would put in a two or three track main, set out an ATSF Super Chief and an IC City of New Orleans, and race them around that longgggg main line!
with that much space, I think I’d try to set up the PRR from NYC to Chicago. Would also have a little of the NYC (just so I could race the 20th Century Limited & Broadway Limited [:D]) – though the NYC would likely be mostly hidden/staging trackage.
Timeframe would be the high-point of rail travel (and of the grandeur of the Broadway/20th Century Limiteds) or possibly the early-mid '40s as the country’s gearing up for war.
Alternatively, I’d split the space into rooms as mentioned by one of the other guys, and focus mainly on horseshoe curve/altoona for the layout, where the other rooms are for a workshop/machine shop, “dispatcher’s office”, etc.
I’ve spent some time thinking about this very thing. When you have nothing BUT time on your hands your mind will tend to wander. (I’m sick, not in prison) Now, some of the oldest and youngest members of this forum might think I’m a cynic, but for those like me that grew up tall and proud in the shadow of the mushroom cloud you may see where I’m coming from.
First of all, I’d stay put. Right here in the same house I grew up in and have lived and loved in for the last 40+ years. What I’d do is excavate, excavate, excavate. 12 feet down and 40 by 80 in the back yard, 20 by 100 in the side yard and 50 by 80 in the front yard. A big ‘U’ shaped concrete, lead and steel bunker. A place to keep from getting bored if ever I was stuck there for a great length of time in the event of a major catastrophe.
In the 20 by 100 room I’d build 2 modest pre-war layouts, one in Tinplate O and one in Standard gauge. In the 40 by 80 room I’d do scale O gauge. The largest excavation would be the living area.
Above ground, I’d have a 7.5" gauge line layed around the perimeter of the lot and I’d build an engine and car shed to house live steamers. Since I’m not THAT mechanically inclined, I’d have all of that built by professionals. Inside the actual current ranch house I’d continue to have the same 4 by 6 O and S bedroom layout I have now, and I’d continue to run G scale around the family tree at Christmas time. The only physical changes I’d make to this house are a bigger bathroom and an elevator.
That’s what I would do if I had a couple of mil to blow.
10,000 square feet, unlimited funds, (I’m fully retired, so I already have all the time I’m authorized…)
In the central 2500 square feet, I’d unfold my well-folded dogbone, increase my current curve radii, provide MUCH more generous people space - and build the same schematic that I’m currently building in 16 x 20. I’d take advantage of the added floor space to get the hidden staging out from under visible track, probably onto shelves beyond the backdrop.
The remaining 24 foot wide ‘donut’ would make space available for museum exhibits, ‘coin in the slot’ layouts and a hobby/gift shop.
Then I’d open the whole, for a limited time daily and about four days a week, as a public attraction. Since I live in one of the planet’s premier tourist destinations, I should be able to attract enough visitors to make it worthwhile. (Note that I didn’t say, “Make it pay its own way.”)
OTOH, I am, by nature, a VERY lone wolf who treasures personal privacy and detests having to schedule things for other peoples’ convenience…
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - my way, at my speed)
I guess I would think about O-scale, where a big layout with realistically-sized curves probably would take that much space. Still, I would wonder about the time issue. If I really had all the time I wanted to spend on building a layout, would I spend that much time? I think not. Once you’re doing something every day, for many hours, it becomes a job, like it or not.
I like the time I spend building a model. I’ve been putting together the City Classics “Grant Street Building.” It’s 4 walls and a roof, coming out of the package. But, I’ve been working on this model, using all of my train time, pretty much, for about 3 weeks now. It’s almost done, it’s as good as I’d hoped to make it, and it’s uniquely mine. But, if I were not using compression to gain the image of a city block, and instead modeling the whole block, I’d need a lot more of these buildings. At that point, it would be a chore, not a challenge.
Looking at it another way, Phase 1 of my layout is a 5x12 foot table. That’s 60 square feet, and it took about 5 years, or 60 months. So, for me, a model railroad takes about 1 month per square foot. Looking at that 100x100 foot building, there’s 10,000 square feet. With really, really generous aisles, there’s probably still 3000 square feet of model railroad to build. 3000 months is 250 years.
250 years, you say? Well, in that case, better pre-order that engine from BLI so I’ll get it in time…
