If I were to build one of those 1880’s, thrown-together logging/mining engines made from donkeys and odds and sods left around the livery stable and blacksmith’s shop, what kind of platform would I need. I was thinking of one of those Proto 2K S1 blowouts, but there is probably something better. HO Scale. I’d want it be be a smooth runner, esp at low speeds.
Not much luck the first time through.
Chip,
The prototype lokey that comes immediately to mind (saw it in Sacramento in '91) was a light-framed 0-4-0T, conventional drive, with a second pair of cylinders driving a big cable drum on the pilot beam. The smokebox was set back behind the road wheel cylinders, with the “donkey” cylinders flanking it. Boiler and cylinder proportions were such that I doubt it could move much beside itself.
OTOH, early Shay and Climax types (cylinders and driveshafts on the centerline) were based on wood flat car frames, but with iron reinforcing and really heavy truss rods. Some were built with everything exposed to the elements, then had weather protection cobbled together out of ‘whatever’ when it proved necessary. If home brewed, ‘whatever’ might have included cylindrical water tanks, either vertical or horizontal.
Hope this isn’t too confusing.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Thanks.
It really doesn’t address what I was asking. Perhaps I should be more clear.
If I have a design in mind, what should I look for in an existing chassis. Would a Proto @K S1 be a good choice?
What have other’s done?
Possibly, if you could get more appropriate sideframes that fit.
I have a 1974 or 75 issue of Model Railroading (ing, not er) magazine which has an article on turning one of the MDC boxcab diesels into a Climax. I think it used an MDC tank car kit for the basis of the boiler. Same article showed how to make a Pacific Electric box motor from one too, for you traction fans.
–Randy
I have an MDC boxcab, but it is not my best runner. I’d like to do better. I have a MDC 0-6-0 T kit.
What decoder would make the appropriate sounds? I have a climax A I’m also thinking about here.
Most of those homemade logging engines were steam, but if you want to use a diesel frame and if you’re wanting to try scratchbuilding all of the superstructure and other details, I would start with something like a Bachmann Cable Car (Walthers 160-60530) or Bachmann MDT Plymouth Switcher (Walthers 160-60016) for the frame, since it would already be powered.
Another possibility, though more expensive, would be a Grandt Line Box Cab Diesel (Walthers 300-7089).
You might even be able to find an old, beat up switcher at a swap meet that could be cannibalized for just the mainframe and motor.
To make a steam engine model of one of these, I would look around at swap meets for an old Dockside or similar 0-4-0 or 0-6-0 switcher that could become the mainframe.
Which was why I was thinking of the S1. They are really smooth and Trainworld has been selling them for $29.
Chip,
Had you given any thought to using either a GE 44 ton center cab or a GE 70 switcher? Each truck has its own motor, and it has 36 inch drivers which would be perfect for the era you are modeling. And I’ve seen them for about the same price as the S-1.
Just a thought
-George
could also go with a flea or pdt, pdt being better for what you want.
I can’t rememebr which issue I saw it in, but there was an article in MR not too long ago I think that showed some real homebuilt logging CLiaxes, basically flatcars with a vertical boiler and a 2-cylinder steam engine. Maybe it was just a photo, or a contest winner. That would make for a pretty much all-out scratchbuilding effort, a small motor disguised as the vertical boiler, or a PDT underneath it all. No place for sound and a speaker though. I’m guessing you want soemthing a bit larger.
My MDC boxcab isn’t the greatest either, but it does have a nice slow speed operation. I think with a little TLC it would run a LOT better - NWSL used to have upgraded drive components for them, plus put a real motor in it and I think it would be MUCH quieter. I THINK the motor gear, idler gear, and the big spur gear were the same in the original MDC Shay kits, which is really wat the NWSL kit was for. They might still have those parts.
–Randy
I am by no means a geared locomotive expert but I would think an S1 frame would be too large and too sturdy. As someone else pointed out a home brew would probably have a vertical boiler and a single action piston.
Hmmm, now that I think about it, Perhaps you could remove the drive shaft and gears from one of the trucks of the S1 and disguise the other (still powered) in the tender portion of the locomotive.
Chip, the S1 mechanisms are not something I would use as a basis for a convincing home-brew logging steamer - the truck wheelbases are too long, and the overall distance between truck centres too great, IMO. Also, the cast frame is quite substantial, and I think would be difficult to hide. You’d wind up with a big, beefy looking loco, rather than a spindly, delicate looking thing that most of these locos were.
You might instead consider using power trucks, such as the NWSL PDT models, or the Australian-made Black Beetles. Most of my interurbans and electric locos are powered by these, and I’ve been very pleased with their performance.
Cheers, Mark.
I guess I have a lot to learn before I head this direction. Thanks for your help, guys. I may revisit this idea in a year or so.
George wrote:
“Had you given any thought to using either a GE 44 ton center cab or a GE 70 switcher? Each truck has its own motor, and it has 36 inch drivers which would be perfect for the era you are modeling. And I’ve seen them for about the same price as the S-1.”
The old ones had the two motor drives. The new ones have a more conventional one motor drive.
Leave it to Botchmann after coming up with a really useful product that can be adapted to a myriad of other uses to screw it up by dumbing it down.
It might be useful in this case though. It wouldn’t hurt to look. You can always write Bachmann and ask for a replacement instruction sheet for the loco. They usually have an expanded drawing of the loco.
Eric
The Railfair loco mentioned earlier was most probably the “Gypsy,” an 0-4-0 standard gauge gypsy logging locomotive. Especially in the 1880s, a homebrew logging locomotive would probably be a rod engine rather than a geared locomotive (geared locos were very much a new idea at the time, and local shops wouldn’t have had the machining capability for such beasts), and if we’re talking Northcoast there’s a good chance we’re talking gypsy engine–meaning a small rod engine with a special gear and a pair of drums so it can be used as a log puller to help load logs onto cars.
Here’s a pic of a homebrewed HOn30 kitbash I built a while back:
[img]http://www.the-gauge.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21912&stc=1&d=1116967171
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The loco was kitbashed from a Bachmann 0-4-0 “Dockside” steam locomotive.
Here’s a photo of an Arcata & Mad River 0-4-0. I think it’s a Porter. There is an On30 model, but they also built them in standard gauge: this one was built for A&MR’s oddball roughly-three-and-a-half-foot narrow gauge.
Here is the Falk, which is, believe it or not, standard gauge. You can visit it if you ever go to Fort Humboldt SHP in Eureka.
And here’s a front view of the Gypsy, also at Fort Humboldt SHP.
The basic idea is something small, probably an 0-4-0, with a dinky boiler. The “easy way” would be to modify a suitable 0-4-0 Dockside or other steam switcher by yanking the body, replacing the motor with a small can motor, and either hacking up/otherwise modifying the body to look like a scruffy homebrew, or scratchbuilding a new body out
Not as cheap as some other solutions, but would work quite well and look quite good is the newer NWSL motorizing kit for the Keystone Shay (currently out of production but still available with looking). You would build your own frame, truck side frames, boiler, cab, etc. The NWSL kit uses an under the frame center drive shaft system just like the real Climax. Other advantages are realistic truck spacing and wheel base. Depending on how detailed you want to get for a Class A Climax, you could even model the engine in the cab.
just my thoughts
Fred W
The new single-motor ones are MUCH MUCH improved over the old ones. The dual motor ones are a pain to put a DCC decoder in, plus even if you did get it to work, the 44 I think stood for how many minutes it would run before the motors burned out rather than the weight of the prototype. Sure it might be easier to fiddle witht he dual-motor as far as cutting downt he body shell - except with the way the trucks attached it owuld be a real pain, plus if I go through the effort to scratchbuid a nice model I want reliable components so it keeps running. But that’s just me, I don’t buy or build anything to be a shelf queen, I like to run my stuff.
It’s not that old a thread. And I like MDC Climax blenders–at least I like mine–just not the way it runs.
Low cost suits me fine too. Here’s the outside of my blender. If I could make it run better, it would get a lot of work on the layout.
