Been awhile since I last posted but have been keeping up to date by lurking. I have been going over in my mind what I would like to have for a layout but can’t seem to make any decisions…
Anyway, upgraded the original space I was given for a larger space to put a shelf style layout. Overall the new space is a 14’ x 6’ ‘L’ as is typical I would love to have 10’ on the short end but it isn’t going to happen. Scale HO, era 1970’s to present. Now for a few questions:
1.) If this was your space would you build the layout following the NMRA module standards? I’m not a member of a module club so I don’t need to build it this way but welcome the comments anyway.
Something I’m not fond of would be having a dual mainline always parallel to the front of the layout, however I suppose there could be some benefits to folowing this standard.
2.) As the design is a shelf, how would you accomplish turning the locomotive around?
3.) Would you bother with a yard?
I find yards somewhat ‘neat’ but since I have never built a layout I don’t know if they are worth the effort or not. Could the space be put to better use?
4.) What’s the best reference for HO shelf Layouts?
I’m still unemployed so an online reference would be great if it exists.
OK back to my hole, trying to figure out a track plan using RTS ver 8 but the things I come up with don’t ever seem to have any rhyme or reason.
Why would you need to turn engines if this is a modern layout ?
Modern diesels can run either way.
If you put a pair of them together long hood to long hood, you would have the short hood (with good visibility) forward no matter which engine was at the front of the train. At the end you run them both (as a unit) around the train using a normal double ended siding.
Or you can put one engine on the front of the train and one at the rear of the train - one switches trailing spurs and one switches facing spurs.
Or you can get an excuse to use a caboose (now being a “shoving platform”) at the rear of the train while backing up, with a crew member standing on the rear platform of the caboose with a radio, to keep the engineer advised about whether RR crossings behind the train are empty as they approach them.
Lots of interesting ways to handle trains with diesel engines without turning the engines
There is no specific advantage to following a specific set of module standards, unless you intend to connect to someone else’s modules.
Keeping it sectional (i.e., your own module standards) will lend flexibility for the future.
Thre are several plans in the Track Data Base that will give you some ideas as to what is possible in your space e.g. the Oklahoma & Western RR or the Soo Line
With a shelf depth of 24 inches you could always drop in a turntable.
Definitely want a yard for staging and for operation (see above example designs) .
No. To do that one would have to further break it up into smaller sections. Way to constraining on a design.
Such as?
My 12x6 shelf has a wye tucked into the corner of the “L”. In the photo below the green GN box car is sitting on the closest leg of it. A turntable would also be easy.
Answer that with a couple questions - other than finding them ‘neat’ why would you want one? What effort are you talking about them being worth? My observation is that most small layouts are way over yarded. A yard is a place to receive or deliver cars to where they can be resorted into trains. On a shelf layout this size (in HO scale) there aren’t a lot of trains. I would think that an industrial area with a single or double track interchange track (yard) would be more that sufficient.
If two tracks were put near one edge in a manner that they could be swapped out it would make car cassettes for bringing various cars on and off of the layout. A removable car ferry could work if one likes the water side theme.
You might want to look at Lance Mindheims “Voodoo & Palmettos” prototypical Miami based layout, specifically his “East Rail” section. This is a point to point switching layout that could be something you may want to pursue. His “Down Town” layout is a take off on the East Rail section and this too is prototypical and situated about five miles from the true East Rail spur. Lance does excellent detail work and every structure is an actual business located in the greater Miami area. Since he is only running one diesel locomotive, Lance is not concerned about turning the engine or dividing the layout into power blocks.
I have included a photo of my shelf layout that is also a Miami base theme in the early stages.
Some more comments from me, hopefully about things not already covered well enough by others:
Modular or sectional layout. Both modular and sectional means “built in chunks/pieces that can be moved independently of each other”.
The difference between modular and sectional is that modular has a standard edge, so any two modules can be put next to each other and the tracks will join up.
May be you have followed the thread by Seanthehack; I have modified his N-scale plan. If you know where to look you can find as much plans as you want that can be inspirational for you.
As you can see this shelf plan is part of a larger system. Although the locale is rather generic you can imagine train movements.
Cars from the east and south are placed in the deep dark night on one of the interchange tracks in Madison junction. Your first job in the morning will be making up the train for points west. Points west could be far more specified; lets asume there are 4 more stations further down the line. Getting all the cars you recieved in the right order, so you can switch all the spurs (the real and virtual) along the line without unnessecery movements is quite a job. This proces is called blocking. The small yard in MadJunction is where the blocking is done, so a small yard was added here. Only when blocking is done you can start switching the spurs round Madison and can head on, on to the cassette.
Change the cars on the cassette for fresh ones, e.g. from a storage shelf, and your train is ready for the return trip home.
Question is: Do you need that yard? Lance Mindheim only kept his industrial zone, no yard, no passing track, no nothing, just a cassette and some spurs. ( www.lancemindheim.com )
The next two plans are adaptions of Lance Mindheim’s design for a 10x8 space. A passing siding was added; so you don’t have to go back to the cassette to switch the spurs facing the other direction. And due to spac
Building in sections is a smart idea if you think you may move some day. Sections are chunks of layout that don’t necessarily have a standardized track interface at the edges.
Modules can also be a fine choice – and you’re not limited to the NMRA module standards. Free-Mo is single track and offers a lot of flexibility.
If you decide to design your own layout, spending study time first with a reference like John Armstrong’s Track Planning for Realistic Operation will be helpful.
Personally, I like yards and think they make a layout more engaging, so I often include them in shelf layout designs. These two layout modules build into a layout about 1’X8’ in N scale and a similar idea could be wrapped aorund a corner in HO in your space.
This switching layout design is about 12 feet long in HO and is based on the real-life Hoboken Shore Railroad. It includes a yard area and industrial tracks and could easily be bent around a corner and lengthened for your space.
The Beer Line articles are good for showing module based layouts, for showing scratchbuilding and kitbashing structures, and for discussing a bit about operations.
Not necessarily a track plan that would be very good for a shelf layout. The need for any module to mate up with any other module and the 18" radius curves used puts rather heavy constraints on the track plan.
For more on shelf style layout plans, I would have read e.g. the articles on the WSOR extension of the Model Railroader company layout, or maybe Ian Rice’s article series on the Roque Bluffs layout - which can be downloaded as an information station download containing all seven articles.
Well as usual this forum provides more information than one could ever hope for!
First off thanks for all the responses, it is amazing to me that I can ask such an open ended question yet get the kind of detailed responses that come back. Take for instance the fact that I had no idea why they run one engine short hood forward and the next long hood forward. Of course once pointed out it makes perfect sense.
The several web sites mentioned will keep me busy for many days there is a lot of information in them to sort through. Hopefully, I’ll be able to one day post a picture of a track plan like those posted so that I can get some feedback on it. Of course I don’t seem to be having much luck in becoming proficeint with any of thee programs I choose. The layout pictures look fantastic also, again one day I hope to be able to share.
One thing to remember is that prototypical switching layouts may or may not be heavily laden with turnouts such as Lance’s East Rail. Lance has used a lot of artistic license when designing East Rail.
If you look at the true East Rail section starting with Seaboard Warehouse/Archives Americas structure, Lance has change it considerably to fit the area that he had to work with. The true East Rail as shown by the link below of the actual Seaboard/Archives Americas warehouse shows three tracks terminating between both warehouses.
You may want to determine if you want to model something that actually prototypically exists or a switching layout that lends itself to several possibilities for different kinds of rolling stock. If you decid
If using RightTrack, it helps to build with sectional (use element, configure library to trim the choices down) even if you want to go with flex. For flex based curved track, use the sliders in shape flex track to set A and B to zero, then have it calculate the curve. Read the the manual on creating ladders and parallel track (which works on curves too).
Others have already explained the plus/minus points of building modules as a home layout. Often the statement is made to build a layout in sections so that you can move it easily.
A point not made is whether you really want to make the extra effort to design and build in sections or not. A non-sectional layout is built in place, and is in fact difficult to move when the time comes. But to build in sections means you have to carefully consider and plan the joints between sections - mechanical support for the sections and joints, mechanical alignment of all track crossing the joint, electrical separation of each section, and scenery at the section joints. Is this extra effort justified?
The answer is of course up to the individual. Having moved many times myself, these are some points to consider before launching into the extra effort of a sectional layout:
do you or will you change the theme, era, key scenes, operating scheme, etc., of the layout when you move? We tend to lock any given layout in many ways. And some of us change our minds about what we want to model, particularly after a move to a different part of the country. Changing our minds on what we are modeling often results in a layout tear-down and starting over. It’s a lot of work to move a layout that ends up being torn down shortly after arriving at the new house.
room sizes are not standard. I can guarantee this after 30 years being a part of Uncle Sam’s frequent relocation program. Even a 4x8 island layout cannot be guaranteed to fit in the next house (don’t ask me how I learned this). A shelf layout will inevitably have to be added to or cut down to be re-used in the next house. Can you take 6" out of the shelf without destroying your layout operationally? What about 12"? In the happy event where the new spa
My current n-scale layout was designed to be a sectional piece that could be expanded on in the future. It is 8 feet x 2 feet and represents my fictional rural Iowa town of Midfield. It has a double track mainline running through it with a siding off of them. On the other side of the mains from the siding (there is a crossover between each main at each end), there is a station that has a platform long enough to hold 5 passenger cars and a siding at a station that can be used to part the local switcher or as a display track for a steam engine depending on the era I want. At one end of the layout is a siding that leads into the Midfield feedstore. The other end of the layout is 2 tracks that feed a grain elevator although I may move it and replace it with a freight house. I can run an engine around in a couple of ways. My track plan is basically from Pelle Soeborgs town scene on his Daneville and Donner River layout. It’s not quite verbatim but very close. My era is different, the industries are different, and the shape os a bit off but the same general arrangement is the same so if you look at his photos you can follow along as I describe how I operate mine.
I can run this section in a few ways. If the layout ever growns with more sections, this could just be a town on a mainline with a couple of little industries. As a standalone section it is still operated that way. I don’t have a “yard” but I do have a siding and 2 mains that can be used as them. The siding along the main is really all I need. Having staging tracks extend from each side means I can run a train through town, or stop it there. It could be a passenger train running through or a local freight. The freights job would be to drop off about 8 cars while picking some up from the siding. The goal would be to get the new cars on the same siding that you are pulling the others from. This is a small switching challenge when you can run a 12-15 car train. Once this train moves out
Okay, I can say that now I don’t think the module part plays any part in my future, thanks for all the replies both pro and con. Perhaps built sectionally but not in strict deffinition of module.
I have also received more reference material to go through, and need to take the time to go over all the new information. In the meantime I got John Armstong’s text, Track Planning for Realistic Operation, back out and have decided I really need to study this and understand it. The first time I tried to digest this most of the material went over my head but this time around it is starting to make a lot more sense. I have even figured out that an HO square with traditional 24" curves and a 2 1/4" track spacing takes up 28.5" and the magic two squares would be 57" or more like 4 3/4’
While I find Lance Mindheim’s East rail layout fantastic, and I wouldn’t complain if it was to appear in my layout space while I slept, I don’t know if I really want to just copy what someone else has done. Deep down I guess I don’t want what somebody else has down the street but somethin unique to me. I just hope I don’t become one of those guys who never get around to actually building a layout.
May be you can explain why you like Lance Mindheim’s EAST-RAIL so much. The beautifull pictures you have seen in Great Model Railroads, or the neat drawn trackplan, or how you envison operation on a layout like that? Or the Miami palmtrees?
Personally I would not like to be so dependend on the cassette and on the old 0-5-0 for almost every train movement. At least a passing track and may be a small yard should be added, if it was my home pike.
In another thread the OP wanted to base his layout around L’éau Claire; Stein Jr found some real nice trackplans of the prototype on the web and great idea’s about possible layout came up immediately. Do you have a favorite locale?
One of the respondents has a home layout like Tony Koester’s Wingate plan. Although I doubt very much if Tony would build such a layout if he only had a 24 feet long shelf to work with.
I think what I like most about East Rail is that when I think of trains I don’t have this vision of wide open vistas and huge mountain ranges, but gritty hard working small branches. When I was growing up we had several tracks from the C&O running through town and I remember getting stopped and having to wait as the crews switched out cars. As dorky as it sounds I always loved seeing the famous kitten on the caboose and gondola’s.
Do I have a favorite locale? No, I read different magazines and see these places that guys plan out for weeks to take pictures. I’m not even sure how they figure out all these photo spots. Me, I’m lucky if can catch a glimspe of the CSX trains as they fly through Fredericksburg.
What I did when I started my new layout was start with what will eventually be a four-track staging yard and use it as a ‘working’ yard as a switching layout. It was built using John Sterling shelving components, the first section I got up and running was an 16" wide shelf layout in an L-shape 9’ by 16’. I built three Walthers “background building” models and use them as industries served by the track nearest the backdrop. On the track nearest the aisle, I was able to put in a team track area.
On the short leg of the L I was able to fit in a coal dealer with their own siding and a coal trestle. I found I had enough room to fit in an engine house (I used a Pikestuff two-stall one, but only have one stall in use for engines.)
I was surprised how much activity this layout generated. It takes about 45 min - 1 hour to switch all the industries with a slow running diesel or steam engine.
