Interesting, some of the flame one gets over Polls. I like them very much, have written probably 30 or so, first on Trainboard, now on my own blog.
One flamer said I was ‘stealing’ ideas from the masses to claim as my own. Rubbish, I say he’s just jealous because I live in wonderful Colorado and all he has to look forward to is the ‘dry heat’ in Arizona.
So why, Joe Daddy, do you do so many polls. Well, it is really pretty simple. My main reason is to sort the narrow view from the general view. For instance, I just don’t like hard sell. The two places where I typically get the most hard sell is for a new DCC system or a new car. Or the one I dislike the most, if you run code 100 rail, you have toy trains.
So, is track the most important detailed aspect of what most modelers consider important? Am I really off base if I run code 100? Am I not a legit modeler if my rail height is a silly millimeter or two off? Well, the results of my latest poll with 66 people participating says detailing track isn’t even close to the most important aspect of model railroading. They, not me say that having DCC is. Go figure.
Here is another amazing conclusion I can draw from this data, only slightly more people prefer prototypical operations over continious running. Now that is not something you’ll ever see in Model Railroader. I’ve always felt that I was ‘defective’ or less than a good modeler because I did not have the least interest in car cards. Turns out that for everyone who is a prototypical operationor there is one of us closet continious runners. WOW, that made me feel more normal about my hobby, turns out I am not a lone wolf, someone who is weird, and does not know how to enjoy the hobby. Now don’t get upset, there is NOTHING at all wrong with prototypical operations, headsets, fast clocks and so on, but it just doesn
Hi Joe, I don’t mind intelligent, interesting POLLS at all. I have learned quite a bit from some polls, such as rating of manufacturers of cars and locos. I don’t have the time or money to buy enough of each in order to learn for myself, so these polls have given me some quick references. Fot those who don’t like the polls, I have one question, why then do you open the thread and make a comment? Why are wasting your own time if you don’t like them? Just don’t open the thread. I bypass at 50% of the topics because they hold no interest to me…stop whinning like a 2 year old…move on like a adult.
Yeah, I’m afraid I read an “in your face” meta message here, Joe, and it doesn’t sit well with me. For example, you may not know it but this particular forum was mostly very happy to see the polling facility disappear when Kalmbach changed over their forum software early last summer. We had gotten sick of the poll, frivolous, fatuous, and facetious…so few of them adding anything of value, and certainly little interest.
Nothing personal…at all…I just thought that if you invite response by posting an opinionated topic, you’ll have to accept that some people don’t share your views.
Only mild point(yes, I’m knit-picking here a bit) is that your percentages by the votes don’t make sense–yes, I know they’re the percentage of the total votes cast(292), but the percentage is falsely low, since it’s the ratio of the number of votes cast rather then the ratio of votes cast to the number of voters, it tends to decrease the apparent percentages since five votes were allowed by each respondant. For example, the highest vote-getter, DCC was 33 votes or 11% of the total votes cast, but 50% of the total number of individuals voting, quite a more impressive number! I think some polls are fine, and the fact that you linked to you website is a good way to do it.
Do you need others’ opinions to vaildate your own feelings? You seem to have some sort need to “prove” you’re right by gathering public sentiment that agrees with your view.
What would you do if the majority of opinions were opposite yours? Would you change what you do or how you model, so you could be–as you put it–“normal”?
If not, then who cares what other people think?
By the way, with 66 responses to your poll and perhaps 300,000 or more model railroaders in the US, your results aren’t even close to representative. So if you’re attempting to somehow show that what you do is “right” because the majority of other model railroaders agree, you aren’t even close yet.
Polls are interesting but only at face value. I don’t hold much credence in nor entirely believe the findings of very many polls.
And polls can be intentionally or unintentionally skewed to make them say what folks want them to say. (Jim, I’m not implying that you are doing either of these.) In order for a poll to be correctly interpreted, the specifics of how the poll statistics were originally tallied and what parameters were used (e.g. pool sample, demographics, age, etc.) all must be understood up front.
Personally, I don’t really care what the “majority” of MRRers’ do or don’t do and where I “fit in” in the percentage. I know and am learning what I’m interested in about RRing and the MRRing hobby. I realize what interests me is NOT necessarily what interests another fellow modeler - even someone I personally enjoy the hobby with.
I do enjoy coming here to glean from the expertise of others more knowledgeable on things than myself, as well as pass along what I’ve learned over my 3 short years in the hobby. How others choose to operate their layouts differently from my own is not a major bearing to my enjoyment of the hobby.
I can listen to other’s reasons and logic for choosing what they have and l learn from them. However, it doesn’t mean that I have to follow what they do exactly. Personal exploration and discovery is what partly makes this hobby so interesting and intriguing for me.
Loads of people use code 100, I wouldn’t get hung up on it. Who cares if someone else thinks it is a crime close to murder to use the stuff. I use Code 100, I paint it, weather it and I’m perfectly happy with the results. Not a single visitor to my layout has commented on the heavy rail that I use.
As for Polls, good for you. If you want to take the time to post a poll on your own blog, why not. Polls were such an emotive subject on this Trains forum for so long that it is not altogether surprising that you have garnered some negative feedback.
For the record, I’m 35, and my first love is computers. I’ve been using telecomunications and the internet to connect comptuers together since I was about 13.
One thing I’ve discovered about this medium is that is very hard to emote and provide body language in what you post in a forum, on an email, etc.
Because of that, people resort to flame wars and screaming in caps and all sorts of things over something that was originally meant as fun and/or entertaining, or an informal poll of people that do the same to see what they love.
Apple vs. Microsoft, HP vs. IBM, Canon vs. Nikon, Digital vs. Film, Code 100 vs Code 83, whatever. people fight over it online in ways they would never do in person.
My policy is if you get offended by a poll, ignore the dang thing and move on, don’t feed the stupid fire.
I appreciate the historical insight. And my apololgy if I was offensive, my intent was to be tongue in cheek about it. I find the disagreement valuable, it was the personal attack that is offensive.
Joe Daddy likes Polls, will continue to do them and work hard to make them of value.
I hope mine are neither frivolous, fatuous nor facetious. Let me know when you think they are!
By the way, the flame DID NOT come from Trains.com, it came from another forum. I’ve found Trains.com to be a pretty open and generally curteous place.
Sorry to anyone on this board who may have been offended by my lack of clarity!
Good point Midnight! Actually, it is getting a clearer perspective. Oft, one can get the impression that one’s views are out of sync, enen misplaced. The polls help me sort through the noise.
Thanks for your comments. By the way, 66 of 300,000 is probably more representative than we might think, probably with a margin of error no more than say 50%.
Best regards,
Lets do coffee some time! I can be up at Midnight!
That’s true. But I’ve always done what I want to do, and if that’s not what someone else likes, well, it’s my hobby. For example, I chose to lay standard HO scale track on my new On30 layout. True, prototype narrow gauge track has larger ties, spaced father apart. But I like the convenience and cost of using HO flextrack, so my railroad (which is freelanced anyway) uses small ties, close together.
I don’t claim it is ultra-realistic, although I paint and weather the track carefully.
As long as they’re of positive, contributary value…then yes I like those types of polls.
Interesting point you mentioned early on…but I feel that some of us tend to over react to.
Prototype Operation vs. Continuous running. It makes me scratch my head sometimes why this should be a hot issue. I’ve seen and met modelers from both camps and imho let them have their fun as long as respect for each others views are maintained.
However, it’s funny that the one camp that isn’t mentioned is the Prototype Continuous Running. Basically the guys/gals with home or in clubs that combine the best features of both. IMHO, this is the ideal type of layout that would work for Prototype and Continuos running folk if they have the space.
I was fortunate as a teen to have a friend who had a continous running layout with a track plan that enabled two operators to pickup and drop off freight cars to customers, dispatch road or switcher locomotives from a turntable, and still simulate long distance passenger/freight runs with the continous loops. Was fun, challenging, yet not a “brain buster” for a back-then newbie like me.
I also like some polls. Although I don’t give most of them much credence, some of them are interesting and entertaining. I’ve also obtained some useful information from some of them, especially on products and services that ordinary people, with no vested interest or financial ties with the companies, have used and rated. Granted, they may be biased (what poll isn’t) but you can use your own judgement in determining the validity of the results. They can also motivate you to do more research or try new things on your own in order to form your own opinion.
There’s a very simple solution for those who don’t like them (or any other particular topic): DON"T OPEN THEM. I regularly bypass many topics that I find uninteresting but realize they may be of interest to other members. Sometimes there are repeat topics or older topics that someone has resurrected. I find some of these interesting as it gives newcomers as well as others who never saw the original posts to read or respond. As far as some people complaining about this practice, simply bypass them and go onto a topic that catches your interests.
Note: I’ve responded to Joe Daddy’s poll and I definitely do not fit into the major categories that the majority of model railroaders (who responded) do which is good,
The “don’t open them” idea seems like a good suggestion, BUT when they were allowed on this forum many of the repetitive silly polls would push legitimate posts down so they could possibly be missed. I can recall logging onto this forum and seeing 7-10 polls on the main page. This means 7-10 other posts were relegated to the second and later pages.
That’s what bothered me the most, glad they have been disabled. It seemed that most polls were done by new modelers with nothing to add or to ask about, so they found the poll capability and aksed all kinds of silly questions such as “what’s your favroite movie”, “what’s your favorite color”, “what’s your favorite snack food”, etc. etc. Stuff like that can get real boring real quick.