After posting on here for about a year or so and asking a lot of questions and getting many helpful responses, it looks like I’ve finally found a layout on google images that fits that unexplainable picture which I have always had imprinted in my mind. I feel that it mostly resembles Philadelphia near where I grew up, but that it could also possibly represent other areas farther west into the state of Pennsylvania. I’ve always wanted to do an industrial over river scene, but have just never had anything like this to start with.
The question is, is it ethical for me to attempt to recreate someone else’s beautiful work, that is, with the stipulation that its for my private enjoyment. I don’t want to take credit for it in any way in the public sphere, I just want something for my own personal enjoyment. I’ve also spent a lot of time analyzing Dave Vollmer’s work, and have been tempted to replicate it in HO scale, however, I’ve felt kind of guilty lately for trying to base my work off of another modeler’s. Are my convictions justified?
Btw, tell me what you think of these photos. I don’t know who made this layout, I just found it, but I think its breath taking. Especially the clouds behind the bridge over the river scene.
The ethical issue is the same as copying a painting or covering a song.
That said… do you want to paint by numbers or play one of those stylophone things?
I think that most people here will encourage you to take inspiration from the pictures and then work out your own variation. There’s no reason why you shouldn’t copy the track plan… well… there may be reasons - I haven’t studied it - it depends on what you are currently aiming to achieve.
Bear in mind that your aims may change. One particular aspect of this is that, should you start to copy the “perfect” layout - go to a train show - see another "perfect " layout… then you might fall out of love with the present one.
If you are really talking about doing the same layout you are quite likely to find some practical issues with sourcing models that may no ;onger be available,
I would suggest that you take a step back to (not too heavily) assess (not analyse) what it is about this layout that makes it work for you. Then start to apply those things / Then start to try to get those things into your future designs,
The important things to recall are that the hobby is a hobby and supposed to be fun and nothing is ever really going to be perfect.
Those Modernism cars are absolutely gorgeous. I may forsee a future for one in Private Varnish…
No matter how hard you try, you will almost never be able to duplicate his layout. It may be close, but without the measure,ents, something will be askew, push something else out of whack, and soon, you mneed to rework something else. It’s gonna be worse than trying to lay track froma computer drawing, since in this instance you don’t have the drawing,
The ethical issue is a lesser one, if you give credit to the guy you got your inspiration from. In Asian cultures, copying a proven design is actually an honor - 1 billion Chinese honor our ingenuity [:D]
The question that you have to answer for yourself is, whether this layout is really the one you have been dreaming of. We all have a deep admiration for the excellent work we see, be it in the MR mag, the internet or here. This admiration may play tricks on us, telling us “Wow, that´s it, this is, what I always wanted!” This, in fact, may not be true at all.
Dream your own dreams, plan your on layout and build it - it is perfectly OK to get your inspiration from others, but don´t copy someone else´s dream.
A layout is created from elements, benchwork, trackwork, control system, scenery, etc. No one can exactly create what another has built and be happy with it in my opinion. I tried that back in the mid 1970’s when I couldn’t settle on a design I liked. I tried replicating a layout that was featured in a magazine and gave up after little more than a year because I couldn’t get inside the creator’s head. When I had the track down, I wondered what was so great about the one I was copying as my laying the track down displayed graphically things I really didn’t like after all.
I have been in this hobby (HO) since 1959 and while I have envyed, admired, coveted other’s layouts at various times, my own Santa Fe in Oklahoma ended up as a combination of elements of the Santa Fe line I was modeling and a few of my own ideas of how I could do better than Santa Fe did and that layout, which was started in 1983/84 is now finished and meeting my needs very well, even though I still find areas I can improve or change.
Admire the work and designs of others, but be creative in your own right.
The entire website is a trove of great ideas by the way, and anyone planning a trip to Colorado Springs would be well advised to try and wrangle an invite to this club. I see no ethical or other issues with borrowing liberally, even totally, from something you have seen that you like. I think it was John Armstrong the dean of layout planners who once said something like if ten model railroaders set out to all build the same layout from the same plan, they’d all still be different because everyone brings something of themselves to the task.
I get together with my friends and pick til dawn playing the music of people Like Gordon Lightfoot, the Beatles, John Denver and many more. No matter how hard we try we could never sound the same as them. I think we do well and I like the way we play somethings better than the original artist does. It will be the same with copying a layout you like. I think it would be a complement for the original builder for you to do so. Just as it is when I play someone else’s music I hope they take it as a complement. But like music you will never copy it perfectly and it will have your own touches in it. Go for it if you so wish.[:)] Oh and by the way I didn’t write Yellow Submarine. Did I need to say that.
Imitation is indeed the sincerest from of flattery. If you copy this layout, you could also be generous and say “this was inspired by xxxxxxxxxx”. Copying someone else is a tribute to them, and not a slur on you.
Carrying it to a ridiculous extreme, is not building a kit imitating someone else who also has that kit?
Carry on, sir, and enjoy yourself! (Of course pictures and trackplan are required at some point !)
Dennis ( From across the pond, where “Yellow Submarine” was written!)
A number of years ago, don’t ask me how many, one of the magazines featured an article about a layout that had replicated the track plan of John Allen’s Gorre and Daphetid railroad. He didn’t try to duplicate the scenery or the theme of the railroad but there was no doubt it was a pretty faithful copy of the G&D track plan. If that had been considered unethical, I doubt it would have been featured. I think it appeared in MR but I’m not positive about that.
A disc, supported by four elephants standing on a turtle. [:P]
… Wasn’t Yellow Submarine wriiten in Lancashire (now Merseyside)… or was it Hamburg? I’m sure it wasn’t Hants. [:-,]
Which goes to show the OP that whatever is said or done someoen can/will dispute it.
Another point is that still photos never show how well (or badly) a layout runs. I’ve known several layouts over the years that looked fantastic in magazines but were very disappointing in the flesh. If that can occur for the mark 1 variety any direct copies are likely to have at least the same issues.
Is the OP (sorry didn’t note who you are) familiar with the idea of “givens and druthers” ?
If you don’t have pangs of guilt from singing someone’s copyrighted song in the shower, then there is hope you can have a clear conscience attempting to copy someone else’s layout.
John, as an old woman replied indignantly to Bertrand Russell, when he asked her what the turtle rested on if the world was on a turtle’s back, as she insisted after attending a lecture of his, “It’s a boojum!”
