I have an unusual item (Milwaukee Road) - Who should get it?

Trains Magazine General Discussion
1

I seek your advice.

I have the complete service records of every locomotive, motor car, etc. owned by the Milwaukee Road from 1878-1969; everything the Milwaukee owned that ran under it’s own power on the rails. They are mostly on 5X8 cards, and thirty years ago my grandfather custom-built a nice wooden cabinet with three drawers they fit perfectly into. If you stack the cards, they would be over five feet tall.

This is a complete historical record. Dates built, scrapped, and every service in between. Also included is specific information including tractive effort, boiler pressure, wheel configuration “Whyte Symbol” etc. And with the diesel locomotives every time they even tightened a bolt, added fluids, or changed a wire they made a note of it. Some of the detail on these cards is amazing.

I’m only 44 now, and although none of my grandparents and great-grandparents ever died before age 98, anything can happen at any time to any of us. And I want to make a note specifying where this collection should go (someday.) My daughter is not the least bit interested in railroading, so she’s out. This collection needs to be appreciated by all.

A few museums have expressed extreme interest, but this makes me uneasy, as museums trade things; items get lost, stolen, burned, or get forgotten in a damp basement, etc. Plus, in a museum no one will be able to use them and enjoy them. I wouldn’t even mind them going to Kalmbach Publishing, if people here feel that would be the best option.

The cards were originally stored at the Milwaukee, WI shops, and were rescued by my uncle prior to demolition. He was in management for the Milwaukee. Along with the cards I also have mint condition maps of the Milwaukee (and many other railroads) mostly from the 1870s through early 1920s. Some of the eastern railroad maps extend into the 1930s. These might go with the collection as well.

The reason I’m posting this now is because my neighbor Carl died recently. He was a

2

You’re worried that a museum won’t keep the collection intact and properly cared for so you want to leave them to an individual?

Have you researched to see if there is a Milwaukee Road Historical Society?

3

You can make very specific guidelines to a museum regarding how the items are displayed used and stored and where they are to go in the event the museum closes . You can also state what happens if the museum fails to follow the gide lines . This what I plan to do with my collection of railroad items .

I know how you feel ,a close friend of mine who was a WW II vet passed away his family threw out an extensive military collection any museum would have loved to have , plus he had a large collection of Railroad items and railroad related books all of it thrown away

4

Not an individual. When I say someone, I mean like an archive. The problem with museums is that they are so obscure, no one practically on Earth would know of the collection’s existence, and I’d like it to be made available, which is why I mentioned Kalmbach. Otherwise the information may forever be “lost” anyway. Not that it’s precious information or anything, but it does offer a detailed look at one aspect of railroading that I would think someday would be considered historically important.

There seem to be more than one Milwaukee Road historical group. Although that’s an excellent idea, they appear pretty small. The Milwaukee Road museum in Savanna wants it, but they confessed their building (a passenger car) was a fire hazard. I asked for other suggestions from them, but but didn’t get a lot of cooperation.

This is why I asked for opinions as to what the group here thinks would be the best thing to do. Where would everyone else like to see happen to it, or ‘what would you do’ I guess would have been a better way of asking.

5

It’s sick how much history is lost every day. Carl had enough things to fill a museum, too, but strangely he never displayed anything; just pulled things out from time to time.

My place, on the other hand, looks like a museum. My problem is that I don’t have enough space to display everything properly.

I have a lot of memorabilia and old maps. It’s interesting what you said you were going to do. How did you pick a museum? That might be the best and easiest thing to do with most of my things afterall.

6

I understand your concern. I have my Dad’s WW-II medals and patches, and a marksmanship trophy earned by HIS grandfather. Another great grandfather made two violins and painted a couple of very nice pictures. My siblings have some of them, and I have some of them but the next generation doesn’t seem to care about them.

7

I recommend contacting the Milwaukee Road Historical Association. There website is here: http://www.mrha.com/index.cfm

This is a pretty strong group. I attended their annual meeting in Wausau, WI last year and there were at least a couple hundred members in attendance. They also produce a fairly high quality quarterly magazine.

To the point here, they have an on going project with the Milwaukee Public Library to preserve and catalog the railroad’s documents. I think it would certainly worth checking to see if they would meet your wishes for preservation of the documents.

8

DITTO…DITTO…DITTO…DITTO!

9

That sounds like a good plan to me.

10

Zwingle,

Michael Sol’s website lists a couple of places that have Milwaukee Road archives. One is the Milwaukee Public Library, the other is the Barriger Collection at the Mercantile Library in St Louis, Missouri. Michael himself has quite a collection of Milwaukee materials, and at least a good portion of which have been scanned and posted on his website.

Many thanks for bringing this up.

  • Erik
11

First: Mega-kudos to your uncle for saving them, and to you (and your grandfather) for preserving them. [bow]

Second: The thoughts and logic about a specific group and the library as above seem pretty good to me.

Third: The information on them can be as effectively preserved by scanning/ digitizing and posting/ hosting them on the Internet someplace, and the larger libraries and more vibrant historical groups seem to be into that. While it’s always nice to preserve the originals, that’s a worthwhile ‘fall-back’ alternative.

Fourth: Consider a brief sit-down with an estate-planning attorney who has some qualifications in gifts of this kind - you’re going to need to do it anyway. Your concerns are well-founded - for the ‘poster child’ of such arrangements gone wrong, see the controversy surrounding the Barnes Foundation’s art collection near to me in suburban Philadelphia, which was the subject of the recent independent documentary movie “The Art of the Steal” - see the summary at: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1326733/

However, there are techniques and tools to address and prevent those kinds of contingencies. As just a couple of examples, the purpose and nature of charitable gifts can be modified by the doctrine of cy pres to preserve the donor’s original intent as much as possible. Alternatively, a trust - which can be set up while you’re still alive - can provide the needed oversight and flexibility. That’s why you need to go chat with a lawyer - a half-hour with a qualified one should be enough to give you a good idea of the better options, associated expenses, and complications, etc.

Fifth: Yeah, it’s a shame what gets tossed, and what gets kept. There seem to be 2 kinds of people: “tossers” and “keepers” (a/k/a “pack rats” - don’t everyone here raise your ha

12

Have you considered scanning the records, either yourself or letting one of the historical societies or museums do it? Once it’s on electronic media, the records can be made available to more people without wear and tear on the paper, and you can decide later who gets the originals. This seems like something many would salivate over, and you don’t want them doing it all over the original cards.

13

Dan Thorn, Dan Thorn, she’s going to marry Dan Thorn.

Rix

14

How difficult would it be to determine which engine was in a particular place at a particular time? I suppose one would have to look at every card? Are they divided by type (Steam/Diesel) or any other classification?

Sorry for the question, but I keep getting these tantalizing ideas for finding what Steam Locomotive scared me “airborne” when I was 3 and a half and I’d be willing to sit for hours at a time to search this archive manually just on the off chance it might provide a clue for my quest.

15

Holy smoke, Rixflix, I didn’t think anybody quoted dialog from “Danger Lights” except the wife and me! How about “I only work when I wanna, and I don’t wanna NOW!” “Oh yeah?” “YEAH!” Or how about “People gotta marry the things they love best. You, each other, me, da RAIL-road!” Good stuff, huh? Come to think of it, the folks that operate Milwaukee Road 261 should name it the “Dan Thorne!” That’s what the wife and I call it anyway!

16

Pretty sound suggestion from jeaton, and seconded by henry6,

The MRHS should be a good starting point on your sear ch. At least go hear what they have to say!

Good lucK in your search for a home for what is a very interesting chronology of the motive power of The MILW !

17

Okay. This sounds pretty appealing. I want these records available to anyone who wants them. This sounds exactly like what I had in mind.

I was a little fearful at first, because if it’s anything like a lot of historical societies, its location will even change, depending on who’s in charge. That’s how things get lost or appropriated.

18

[quote user=“Paul_D_North_Jr”]

First: Mega-kudos to your uncle for saving them, and to you (and your grandfather) for preserving them.

Second: The thoughts and logic about a specific group and the library as above seem pretty good to me.

Third: The information on them can be as effectively preserved by scanning/ digitizing and posting/ hosting them on the Internet someplace, and the larger libraries and more vibrant historical groups seem to be into that. While it’s always nice to preserve the originals, that’s a worthwhile ‘fall-back’ alternative.

Fourth: Consider a brief sit-down with an estate-planning attorney who has some qualifications in gifts of this kind - you’re going to need to do it anyway. Your concerns are well-founded - for the ‘poster child’ of such arrangements gone wrong, see the controversy surrounding the Barnes Foundation’s art collection near to me in suburban Philadelphia, which was the subject of the recent independent documentary movie “The Art of the Steal” - see the summary at: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1326733/

However, there are techniques and tools to address and prevent those kinds of contingencies. As just a couple of examples, the purpose and nature of charitable gifts can be modified by the doctrine of cy pres to preserve the donor’s original intent as much as possible. Alternatively, a trust - which can be set up while you’re still alive - can provide the needed oversight and flexibility. That’s why you need to go chat with a lawyer - a half-hour with a qualified one should be enough to give you a good idea of the better options, associated expenses, and complications, etc.

Fifth: Yeah, it’s a shame what gets tossed, and what gets kept. There seem to be 2 kinds of people:

19

A very big yes! I have always planned on scanning them myself, but the task is going to be very time-consuming, and I haven’t gotten to it yet. I have so many old and new photos to scan too before that. I need to hook up my scanner, but the wires resemble a bird’s nest from hell, and I’ve been procrastinating… [:$]

20

I think the cards have always been kept in the same building where they were removed. They’re old, but in excellent condition.They have a neat old smell to them, too.

As far as I can surmise, each card was assigned to a locomotive at the time of purchase. Purchase price is usually included. Afterwards, anywhere the locomotive was serviced, someone would make a record of what they did, etc. and transmit via telegraph or phone the information to headquarters, where it was recorded on the cards.

There are also locomotives where the number was changed later, and this is noted, too. So although there may be two or even three locomotives with the same number, they are all different, and these details are noted. In other words, you can trace back each locomotive’s history with a single card, regardless to what the number might have been before or after.

And some locomotives have records so extensive they cover more than one card, typed on both sides. With most of the locomotives, however, one card was sufficient. There are no instances where more than one locomotive is recorded on a card. The Steam locomotive records are typed, and the Diesel locomotives are partially typed, but the service records themselves are mostly filled-in with pen.

Years ago I used to have fun finding photos of any Milwaukee road engine or motorcar and looking up its history, but it was obscure infor