I just received a used HO Rivarossi Y6b I picked up on ebay. It has the marking of the Pennsy and a 3-digit road number. From the look of it, it’s a later built with the squreish motor in the cab. It was sold as non-running ad I found 2 broken black wires that run to the front and rear drivers so that’s an easy repair. One strange thing is the entire engine and tender is an olive-drab color (OD green) and the light looks like a molded green piece.The engine plate on the front has 2197 which is the only road number Rivarossi made. Is there anything special with why it’s made in OD green and not black like every other one I’ve seen?
Pennsy received 6 ex-N&W Y-3 2-8-8-2’s during WWII. (This was the earlier class from which the later classes developed). The Pennsy road numbers were 373 through 378.
Since Pennsy steam engines were painted “Brunswick Green”, a very dark green, and not black, as so many incorrectly believe, that may be why your engine is “colored” green.
Thanks, that explains alot The engine number is 378. I guess I’ll still need to buy a N&W Y6b to make things look right. I checked the serial number under the tender 191263192 102
It has been nearly 20 years since I picked Rivarossi parts at the train store for my Y6B’s.
However, model trains generally do not receive serial numbers, and Rivarossi has produced tens of thousands of Y6B’s, if not more than that.
That number is very likely the part number of either the tender bottom or the tender body.
With very limited exceptions, the only model trains that receive numbers (other than road numbers, item numbers, or part numbers) are limited edition brass models, which in recent years often have a little bronze or brass plate on the bottom with the manufacturer’s catalogue number, the month and year of manufacture and the number expressed as “___ of ___” with the second number being the total production. Of course, the Japanese, Korean or Chinese builder’s name is given as well.
Somewhere I have an old AHM parts catalog and if you can share what the three digit number is, I will try to dig it up or out and look up that number. I share John’s hunch that we are talking part number here. They used the same number plate on the boiler front regardless of what railroad or number the particular version was.
Back when I was a Pennsy modeler I well remember the many disputes about just what color Brunswick Green really was. Some claimed you could only tell is was green if you saw it next to a black locomotive. Others say that authentic Brunswick Green paint chips taken into the average home or basement will look entirely different due to how they react with artificial light particularly flourescent light. Even the Grif Teller calendar paintings for the railroad itself show several shades of green.
The Pennsy’s former N&W 2-8-8-2s were class Y-3. By the time the PRR got them (and Santa Fe got some as well) they had been modified and modernized and while there are many spotting differences between them and a Y6b, it was not that big a stretch to accept Pennsy lettering on the engine. (A bigger stretch was the many road names AHM/Rivarossi put on their Indiana Harbor Belt 0-8-0). At the risk of going out on a limb, I think a case can be made that the Y3s almost look more like Y6s than they did the Y3 original versions that the N&W first had. The changes were considerable.
The one thing I never was able to verify about the Pennsy Y3s was if they indeed repainted them into their characteristic Brunswick Green. They lettered and numbered them which suggests (but would not require) complete repainting, but in other respects these were war emergency engines and it would have seemed like needless spending to repaint an engine that already came painted from the N&W. I have never seen
The Pennsy Y-3’s received the Keystone front number plate, somewhat unusual for freight power, though I believe the J-1’s also received the Keystone.
Since they went through the trouble of making new Keystone number plates, it would seem they would have repainted the engines.
As a side note, although Santa Fe simply relettered some and put their Y-3’s into service immediately upon receipt, it appears some also did get fully repainted during their tenure on the Santa Fe.
The N&W Y-3’s were modernized from their original USRA appearance during shopping in the early 1930’s, when they received the huge Worthington BL feedwater heaters on the left side, with air pumps relocated to the right side under the running boards, and the cross-braced X pilot handrails fabricated from boiler tubes. Other than tender modifications/replacements, the addition of Worthington feedwater heaters was the major cosmetic change to them. Otherwise, they retained a basically straight USRA appearance–eventually receiving footboard pilots.
Though I actually prefer the exposed piping runs on the boiler of the Y-3, the Y-6B to my eyes is a different animal, with most piping hidden under the boiler jacket or below the running boards. As has been said in print, most of the revisions incorporated into the Y-6B were indeed internal–but nevertheless–they just look a bit different.
However, most casual steam fans consider Rivarossi’s Y-6B to be “close enough” to the war-traveler Y-3 's and always have. That’s why they sold so well.
As for me, I prefer BLI’s Paragon2 Y-6B or the affordably priced Oriental Limited Powerhouse (zamac boiler/brass detailed hybrid) Y-3 of the 1980’s (which has the exact same Samhongsa mechanism as the $2000 and up articulated steamers excepting the soldered on crank.)
One thing I noticed since Rivarosse didn’t make an attempt to be accurate. First the number plate in the front is round and has the number 2197 on it. They basicly took a N&W model and pressed in green with no changes and stuck Pennsy on the tender and a 3-digit number on the cab. From looking at it there’s no acutal light, just a green plastic light. Doesn’t matter thought, I still like it and that’s what matter. I’ll still get an N&W Y6b. Watching some of the double-headed consist pulling the coal trains in the videos makes you want on of these monsters!
John a common misconception from what I’ve read and been told is that PRR steam locomotives were actually painted what the railroad called “DGLE”,Dark Green Locomotive Enamel) This was an effectively black paint that contained a high proportion of copper oxides. Typically confused withe the real Brunswick Green which the GG1’s were painted in. As mentioned it was hard to tell this color from black unless the two were side by side. Also the one exception to this was some K4’s were painted Tuscan Red All in all an ugly color to paint a locomotive no matter what they want to call it.
To the OP Rivarossi parts are like hens teeth good luck trying to find them a lot of searching in your future also one very common problem is people make the mistake of not having the tender wheels on the right rails.One side picks up positive and the other negative. I purchased 6 of them many years back that were supposed to be all dead All I did was flit the trucks and put hem back on the rails and they worked like they were supposed to.
My understanding was that Dark Green Locomotive Enamel was Brunswick Green–that the two are one and the same. Many manufacturers do not and have not distinguished between the two.
However, I’m not a member of the PRR hysterical society.
N&W 2197, the unofficial “Y-6C”, built around February, 1952, was specially improved (with a new valve to allow high pressure steam to directly enter the low pressure cylinders) to compete in actual service tests against the 4-unit set of EMD F-7’s (also unbeknownst to N&W till after the tests, specially tweaked with allegedly 200 extra horsepower per unit). The test was more or less a draw–but N&W owned a huge fleet of modern steamers that basically performed equally as well as the new F-7’s–and remained “all steam” for 3 more years before the end began. The other Y-6’s all received the new valve installed on 2197 during normal shoppings.
No updated tractive effort figures were ever officially released for the improved Y-6. Some claim tractive effort of as much as 166,000 pounds in simple operation, but the figures are considered “questionable”.
In any case, 2197 lives on in memory as a justifiably famous engine, for matching the performance of the F-7’s and sending EMD home in virtual “defeat”.
The only reason I recall this otherwise useless piece of information only useful people like us is that I heard it from two different sources at the museum if you want to cal it that at the Horse curve out in Altoona and by one of the guys at Steam town one one of our visits. Some woman asked “why are all trains painted black” well you could here the mumbles and the grumbles and the guide proceeded to tell use the story of Brunswick green hence I now share this with you…lol
I have also read about that test as well and another story of the last days of the Big Boys on the UP having to go out and rescue a stranded consist of broken down F units and the engineer did so with a smirk on his face while dragging the consist and it’s passenger cars back in to the repair shop.
There is no question that steam locomotive were far superior when it came to shear pulling power and brute strength, their Achilles heal which lead to their final demise was the extremely high cost of maintenance. I am a firm believer that locomotives such as the PRR S2 were never given a fighting chance and not enough R&D went into them. Do in part to the lack of technology at the time a great concept was doomed to ail form it’s onset. Similar to the case of the famous Northrop flying wing back in the late 50’s early 60’s I think. A great concept but with the technology of that time period an idea relegated to the scrapers torch. Fast forward to the 1990’s and the age of micro processors etc, and we now have the B2 stealth bomber. I think some forward thinking individuals need to rethink the idea of a steam turbine locomoitve.
If you’re out that way (Altoona) and want a good example, check out the Geep up on Horseshoe Curve. It looks black - until you get an angle where the sun shines off it, then you can see the hint of green.
Good news, I repaired the 2 broken wires going to the front and rear wheels. After I figured out the tender is also a power pickup the engine works! Only thing there is a loud whinning noise when the power is on. The engine runs and the headlight works. Can some one tell me what I can do about the noise and is this normal? I’ll probable want to make this DCC since that’s what I run. Will this take care of the engine noise? also What’s a good decoder to use and where should I install it?
Although not accuartely numbered for PRR my Rivarossi Y6b is black with gold lettering Pennsylvania on the tender and 2197 on the cab matching the engine plate on the front. I purchased it new in 1978. It has what everyone calls the pizza cutter flanges. If you don’t have the deep flanges you may have the redesigned later model but I not sure of the color or numbering of those models. It just could be somebody repainted and decaled the model themselves. There have been articles over the years about remotoring the Y6b. Although I’m still one that uses DC I have seen articles recently about installing decoders. Check out the Northwest Short Line website www.NWSL.com for the tutotial on repowering the Rivarossi-AHM HO Gauge 4-8-8-4 Big Boy, etc, articulateds (c1970s/1980s). This repowering is generally adaptable to their articulates including the 2-8-8-2 Y6b prior to the redesign models of the 1990s. The tutorial will also include the NWSL motor number and any other parts such as u-joints, etc. To date I haven’t had to repower mine so I can’t tell you what the end result would be. For part numbers check out www.hoseeker.net Click on the Literature tab and then the manufacture tab AHM or Rivarossi. The part numbers will be for the 1972 issue which would be the pre-1990 versions.
Thanks for the web links. I’ll print out the relevant pages tomorrow at work. I think I’ll just detail my Y6b and keep it as a collectable and look at buying a newer and better model for running on club layouts. Maybe I’ll collect one of each type of big articulate locomotives (Allegheny, Challenger, Class A, Y6b, etc.). I think that all the big superpower engines are worth having.