I am sure glad you guys think you have it solved except for one thing. the last contract sign has it that there will always be a engineer on board all road trains and locals. it can be run by remote controll but a engineer will be on board.
Oh and there is still fireman on the railroads. just not on every job, sorta like brake man. the craft is still there just not used. but the second part of the no brakeman is that the company offered a buy out of senority for brakemen and to do away with the jobs and the men voted for it. thinking with the wallet and not the jobs.
And if the remote control drone operation ever became widespread, then there’s the question of how the next generation of engineers obtains the ‘seat of the pants’ experience and ‘feel’ that is needed, and will be absolutely necessary to correlate what’s on the computer or video screen with what’s actually happening out there with or in the train. For example, how will the computer transmit the feel of the slack running in, 1 car at a time, as the head end of the train slows when it starts into a steep ascending grade ? Or the runout, as it gets into the main part of the grade ? Or a marginal wheelslip occurrence ? Etc.
But I can see this coming someday in like the next 10 to 20 years, on maybe up to half of the mainline trains eventually. Starting with the large-scale industrial operations such as the Canadian iron ore haulers, Quebec North Shore and Labrador, and the Cartier Railway, and then ex
Wabash - You’re right, which is why I cite the “social” part of the whole issue.
But things can, and do, change. If you told the five member crew of a freight train fifty or so years ago that by 2000 there would only be two people on the entire train, and that there would be a little box hung on the last coupler to replace the caboose, you’d have been laughed out of the room. And probably told to read your contract, because it called for a five man crew.
I’m not advocating for the loss of jobs. I am pointing out that things change. Even things that we think never will.
thats right never say never . I can tell you this its gonna cost them more than 40k to buy my senority as a conductor and engineer. I would take 100 k for my conductor senority but my engineer senority is gonna cost more.
You have nothing more to worry about than the next guy Wabash… we’re all affected by changes in technology…if anything… railroad people probably have more security in that regard than some other lines of work that don’t require the physical dexterity of a railroader… Like someone else stated…a person from a remote location can’t deal with problems on the ground like broken air lines etc…
The Boeing 747 does not need a guy with a joystick flying it remotely. The onboard computer can and does most of the flying. One can program the flight, put it on the runway and remove the pilot and co-pilot and it can take off, fly and land with no human whatsoever at any control. You can ‘fly’ a train the same way. If you wanted. Without a lot of infrastructure. Just a modern computer. Of course it could only be yard to yard without set outs anywhere. But you wouldn’t need a dude in any control room. Though, I suppose one could be there monitoring 20 or 30 trains.
In theory, is is possible to automate operation of trains.
In practice, it is not even remotely feasible at this time. Nor any time in the near future. Nor in my lifetime. This is much harder than many people think. The operation of one train is easy. Now do it with thousands of trains, in a dynamic system that evolves from one day to the next. The systems management requirements to take in all that data, process it, categorize it, and publish it is quite difficult and costly.
Even if it was, I cannot imagine any regulatory environment in this country that would permit such a thing.
As usual, this is way too long! Those who are feeling the pull TMI, feel free to skip.
I can’t promise some of these sentiments and accounts have not appeared in the prior four pages. I deliberately did not look at them because I didn’t want to “review the reviews,” so to speak.
Hopefully, some little thing or things will add to the discussion. I am taking purely on faith that this massive thread is still on the original topic and we aren’t discussing rusting cabooses in Rhode Island, so to speak.
Today, the big Seven are for-profit, but that wasn’t already the case.
Penn Central under Stuart Saunders was virtually anti-profit with the appearance of profit done by crook – bogus leasebacks, creating money out of thing air (quite illegal), deliberately letting the road(s) go to pot. When he had that power, under that technological and infrastural climate, he paid no more than lip-service to innovation. He probably said he was in favor of the AAR’s backing of those (early color) bar codes on some freight cars, even at the time the corporation he headed integrated the Pennsy-NYC merger so poorly that it destroyed legitimate avenues to profit – one example: even the best new yards got crowded with each other’s “mystery freight.” But money is money and profit was made to look legitimate, or at least it was enough to fool the complacent shareholders and the so-called "specilized financial accountants. (Did we learn? No. Enron pulled many of the same stunts ca. 30 years later.) So at one time it was possible to pluck the bones of two hitherto well-respected systems and add to the misery of whas was already turning into Rustbelt. It was a lesson hard-learned, the billions spent, the routes condemned – but if it proves anything it gives a fine
Note that I’m referring to “open” systems such as the North American network. “Closed” systems such as the Pilbara iron ore lines that have rigid operational plans, essentially sealed corridors, and do the same thing day-in, day-out, are another matter.
Indeed, professional pilots aren’t being paid to fly the planes, but to land the planes That’s something I picked up pre-Capt. Sollenberger FWIW. - al-in- chgo
I never said i was worried and never was worried, in fact buy me out. but if they wont buy me out i guess ill just go to work and play on thier railroad
Agreed, including your subsequent post excluding ‘closed’ systems such as Pilbara.
But what about remote control as discussed above, and with the ‘drones’ ? Do you care to offer a prediction - which you are typically reluctant to do, I know - or any insight into that ? Thanks.