I have 23 x 2 feet free space in one place of my layout room. The plan is to model Denver Union Station at one end and North Yard at the other end. Time period 1980-1990. HO scale. I want Denver Union Station and North Yard Tower (Rio Grande) to be present in the plan together with lots of tracks and other importent things. Can someone please draw this for me as close to the prototype as possible in this space? I know that everything will not fit in my space. The importent thing is to get the right feeling when you look at it.
Here is a photo of North Yard:
North Yard Tower:
Denver Union Station:
An easy way to do this would be to access one of the imaging programs (Microsoft Terraserver or Google Earth). Terraserver allows you to drill down on the imagery or USGS map of the area to a very high level of detail. If you are not used to working with imagery, look for Coors Field first. Since you have pictures of the area, you already know the relationship between Coors and Union Station. You could print out the image and measure distances on the print. The baseball diamond (distance between the bases) at Coors provides a good distance measurement. This is a fairly dense area, so the imagery would allow you to more easily determine what features you want to include in your layout.
You may already know about this, but someone wanting to try designing to fit your space may not. You need to be a member of the group to use the Files section.
I am once again confused by the time period specified. I thought the main point of this layout was to model the California Zephyr, and the associated locomotive changes at each end (Denver & SLC). In the time period specified the track configuration around Union Station is different from when the Zephyr ran here. From 1983-1990 there is only one Amtrak train in each direction out of Union Station. There are no passenger operations through the Royal Gorge. The tracks from Union Station to the west (Burnam Yard where the CZ locomotives were serviced & The trains exited to the Royal Gorge) are still there but haven’t been used except for the RGZ locomotives & Ski Train for nearly a decade. Even the joint C&S - AT&SF yard is virtual deserted in this time period. It is also in this time period the UP yard just to the west of Union Station were removed for Coors Field at which time tracks at Union Station were re-aligned to their current configuration, and those steel passenger shelters were put up.
For starters, here is a sketch of the general layout from 1980-1990.
I can help fill out the details when I understand what the operational goal is.
Using current images would not help as the tracks to the east of Union Station were reconfigured when Coors Field was built. The over/under passes for 15th, 16th, 20th streets, and Park Place are all different too.
An easy way to do this would be to access one of the imaging programs (Microsoft Terraserver or Google Earth). Terraserver allows you to drill down on the imagery or USGS map of the area to a very high level of detail.
TZ replied:
Using current images would not help as the tracks to the east of Union Station were reconfigured when Coors Field was built. The over/under passes for 15th, 16th, 20th streets, and Park Place are all different too.
Yes, don’t try to use Google Earth to figure this out. Everything in the middle is scrambled. I got lost looking at it and decided to just not even bring it up since it didn’t seem that useful.
I did find the old warehouse next to the UP tracks where I did some training during a crisis for an erstwhile former employer in 1987 though.
[banghead]
Not really worth the effort I put into it, but it was a fun few weeks away from home.
Yeah, that’s a tangent on my part, but it makes your point – things change. If electrolove is planning on running the CZ in its prototype timeframe, then some further research is going to be needed.
I checked the Denver Public Library Western History Collection’s photo collection: http://photoswest.org/presearch.html
If you go there and search under the terms “Denver Union Station aerial” you get some photos that may be useful. The best is by Harry Mellon Rhoads, called “Aerial view of Denver’s railyards” Call Number Rh-1323 from 1940. It shows Union Station in its glory days, I’m pretty sure, kind of like the doughnut hole to what you get from looking at Google Earth and seeing the way things are now.
I’m sure there’s more stuff around, but this is one of those cases where it clearly depends on “What year was it?”
I also just noticed an error on the drawing I posted. I indicated that there are locoshops near the north yard (the area of the original picture in fact). These are not “shops” proper but a service and storage area. The “shops” were and are at Burnam which is off the drawing to the southwest.
This also brings up another question. Why is there the interest in the north yard? To the best of my knowledge, the power for the CZ, and RGZ was always supplied from Burnam. I believe this was because from Burnam to Union Station was all D&RGW track, while to get from Union Station to the North Yard the D&RGW ran on foreign tracks (Denver Transit CO?) and had to cross the C&S or CB&Q main (don’t remember exactly which one owned this piece of track). In fact, the reason the North Yard was built was to help get traffic through this bottle neck.
Ok here is what I came up with. Like you said not even close to everything fits. Most of all of this should be double track rather than single. Another foot of width and 20 more feet in length and things could really get interesting.
The red line is Union Station.
The blue is the Platte River (notably missing is the infamous turnout on the bridge where the CZ was turned. In real life it was always backed into Union Station. There is no possible way to fit a wye for an entire passenger train on a 2 foot wide space).
The green at the far left is the North Yard. The track to the left is the Moffat route and where the CZ would arrive and depart toward Salt Lake City.
Immediately above is the CB&Q yard. The top most track is the track that the CZ to/from Chicago would depart/arrive on.
The yellow blotch is the loco service of the North Yard.
The tracks at the far top above the yellow is the 23rd street CB&Q locomotive shops.
The track from the south (right) of the loco service and cutting off before the crossing is the C&S to the rice yard.
The Rice Yard is the three tracks immediately below the three Union Station tracks. It has also has a loco servicing facility (to the right). This arrangement in reguard to Union Station is very prototypical. In addition to the Station tracks it was a sea of rail yard clear to the river.
The track to the right of Union station is where the Burnam loco shops would be and that track goes “south” to Littleton, Colorado Springs and eventually the Royal Gorge.
The track going to the right of the Rice Yard would join the “south bound” D&RGW track and becomes the joint line to Littleton etc.
This does not include any of the industries, any of the UP tracks, it does not include the C&S track to Utah Junction, or as I mentioned before the wye on the CB&Q - C&S track right over the river
Hi Texas Zepher,
Looks pretty good to me. I’m sure if I did it, I’d probably try to squeeze in some extra tracks – and then regret doing so when it came time to plant some structures, etc. Certainly, you’ve given electrolove some good ideas to chew on. It’s an economical and thoughtful use of the space that includes a nicely rendered version of the prototype arrangement within the space restrictions.
Your plan also points out how this might be a place where a wider space with at least some access on both sides might work better a little better, if he can afford the space. Or plan on getting a new Micromark ATC (All Terrain Caddy) [:D] to reach across a somewhat more generous space.
But these size restrictions also point out how what at first seems like a generous space quickly melts into a much tighter reality once passenger trains come into play. The longest track at Union Station is around 8 feet, which is a bit short for a CZ. So this is an area where some adjustments might need to be made. Just plugging in another 3 to 6 feet or so in the middle of Union Station would be the most straightforward solution, if the space is available.
Maybe I will use masking tape on the floor in my layout room and test the track arrangement. It’s easier to see if it looks good that way. The reason I want Denver Union Station and North Yard is because I really want to have the Union Station building and the North Yard tower on my layout. I think these two areas are exciting to model. I will also model the Rio Grande depot at Salt Lake City and the wye + Grant tower + a bit of 7th West street. I will be back with the aviliable space for that later.
The plan is to have a little bit of these two big cities (Denver, Salt Lake City) so I can switch cars there and the Royal Gorge hanging bridge, Byers canyon and other places like that will be more of a railfan feeling. A little bit of both.
Texas Zepher, Can you please make a version that’s 3 feet wide as well? Maybe maybe maybe I can make it fit. Regarind the infamous turnout on the bridge where the CZ was turned, do you have any pictures of that area?
Umm I’ll see, I’ve got a lot of other things I should be working on - like my entry to the MR layout design contest!
I have tons of how it has been in the past few years. Unfortunately there was a derailment over the bridge about 4 years ago and they reworked it, but fortunately they didn’t change the alignment. Below is a photo of how the bridge itself is today. This is looking from the south to the northwest.
The California Zephyr would arrive from the east on the curved track. It would stop when the last car was past this turnout (about where the locomotive is). Then it would back down the straight track (toward the left bottom) into Union Station about 1/3 a mile away.
The track in the background is the former C&S track going from prospect (just south of the north yard) to where the Rice Yard used to be. It crosses the river just out of the scene to the left. The main line track (two tracks) from the former C&S Rice Yard to the CB&Q yard runs right along the bottom just outside the photo. The signal is the control for the crossing. I’ve been told that there used to be double track across the bridge (and hence a double crossing) , but I have yet to find a photo that proves this.
I’ve sent this full photo and another photo of this area from a different vantage point via e-mail. Oh yeah. the little industry track off to the left in one of those is the supply track for the CB&Q/BN/BNSF 23rd street loco shops & track maintance facility.
