My current layout plan has a lot of track in tunnels. I will be building the layout cookie cutter style. I will be able to access the track from under the layout, but it won’t be fun. If I want usable staging I need one turnout in the dark and if I want to reverse trains, I need a second one.
I am running small steam. My plan is to run code 55 where track is visible and Atlas code 83 where it is not.
Now I can make the track work, but I am concerned with expansion/contraction, humidity, etc.
If you had to walk away from your trackwork, what would you be sure to do?
What would you use for roadbed and sub-roadbed. Would you use roadbed? How would you attach the track?
What allowances would you plan into your benchwork?
I don’t like hidden staging for exactly the reasons you’ve stated. However, that being said, any problems with hidden trackage will most likely come from your switches. Make sure that you’re switches (and the mechanism which operate them are “idiot proof”!
As for subroadbed/roadbed, I’ve always used 3/4" plywood and cork roadbed and have never had any problems with expansion/contraction etc. I always solder all rail joints on curves.
Laying down bullet proof track take some skills.[:)]
I would recommend soldering all the joints. What I did was use railjoiners and then solder them together. It has been pretty solid for about 6 months now.
Is your layout in an A/C environment inside your house? You should be ok.
And just make sure you test, test, and more test as you build it before you start to lose access to the tracks.
Looks like your problem area will be the switches under the cattle pens. That would be an ideal place for an access hatch! (the fencing and other scenic elements would make it easy to hide).
Yep turnouts are gonna be important. If you can afford them, I would recommend using Peco. I have about 24 of them on my layout, they are solid as a rock, I’ve never even had fix the gauge on any of them right out of the box.
I was thinking the same thing. I got lucky there. Originally I did not have any turnouts in the dark, but my wife nixed my running staging over her washing machine and I had to make due. Eventually those will be eliminated when I move her laundry to the other side of the basement and start phase II.
I promised myself I would never have another turnout in a tunnel. I hate the idea.
Not sure of the enviroment you live in or your basement conditions, but make sure the lumber you use for the benchwork is “seasoned” to your basement, some people suggest painting the lumber. I read alot recently where some modelers have had issues with the track because the lumber has expanded/contracted. I’m sure more guys will add to this. Good Luck!
I’ve got subways, and a “regular” layout above them. Except for a couple of feet where the subway line emerges for a while, it’s entirely underground.
My subroadbed is pink foam, 2-inches thick, glued to a wood frame with 16-inch spacing between rafters. The underground portion is entirely flat. All track is ballasted. There are 7 turnouts below ground, 5 Atlas snap-switches and 2 Peco curved turnouts. All track is code 100. I used Atlas flex track, and also a bunch of 18-inch radius sectional track, because I had it lying around.
The track is rock-solid bulletproof. Of course, the only things I run down there are Proto subway trains and a pair of trolleys, other than the CMX machine. (Well, how else do you clean track in tunnels?) Still, nothing ever comes off the track all by itself.
But, there’s always the X-factor, me. Every now and then I forget to throw a turnout, and somebody comes in from the wrong track on the frog end. Or, I don’t run that CMX machine quite often enough, and somebody stalls. Even though it’s basically a small oval with one passing siding, and it’s only suitable for running one train at a time, that doesn’t mean I can’t run two. And whenever there are two trains…
So, I’ve got liftoffs. Lots of them. I think I’m up to 8 with the new staging / station tracks. These let me access almost the entire system directly from above. I accepted the need for liftoffs as a challenge, and did my best to disguise them.
The old North Shore club had a LOT of underground trackage, not just staging but big runs of the mainline. The trackwork was solid and very few underground derailments happened.
Place a few rerailers on the underground track.
You can make the turnouts goof proof by wiring track power thru the auxiliary contacts of the switch machine so that the track doesn’t have power unless the turnout is thrown to the proper position.
I’d also use code 100 underground just to give a little more clearance between flanges and track spikes. You might have (now or in the future, or thru interchange) some rolling stock with pizza cutter flanges. Let them derail in the above ground trackwork rather than the underground trackwork.
Chip, a lot of us have adopted a few standard practices that really help. Apart from access troubles, tracks that are meant to be out of the way/invisible can be made to be as close to perfect as possible by soldering on curves, minimizing superelevation, leaving several free-sliding joints along tangents, using caulk to adhere the rails to the roadbed, champhering/beveling the rail ends at the flange face and the tire face (essential on tight curves, but doubly so where the sun don’t shine), and finally proving it over a couple of weeks, maybe better over 6-8 months, before you call it trouble-free.
Back to tight curves…always a risk in hidden tracks. So, if you can keep curves as broad as practicable, that would be another thing to keep in mind for bullet-proof track.
That’s about it. Good practices, and then proving the heck out of it over weeks, back and forth, pulling and shoving, many combos that will convince you it is worthy.
-Crandell
P.S.- as an afterthought, I have found that ballasted track just doesn’t budge. I can’t claim tons of layout experience, but my tracks just don’t budge. So, as much as many say to not bother in hidden trackage, if you have the above points down cold, it wouldn’t hurt to ballast it all before you cover it up. Just more insurance from my point of view.
Chip, the one thing that jumped out and bit me was the upper level staging. I’d bring it out closer to the open side of the ‘below-stairs,’ but not directly above the puzzle palace at the front of the lower-level staging.
I almost hate to say this, but you probably had better access when those two turnouts were under the cattle pen. Just how do you propose to reach that corner under the stairs between the foundation (I assume) and the solid wall? That sweeping reverse curve pretty much fills the ‘standing room’ that used to be there.
Like you, I originally planned LOTS of hidden track. In fact, every millimeter of track I’ve laid so far is (or will be) hidden.
All but a few of the turnouts I’ve built so far are on removable ‘domino’ assemblies - and I have removed them for modification and to facilitate troubleshooting.
The non-removable turnouts are either very close to the readily-removable fascia or under easily-removed liftouts like Mister Beasley’s. (That’s why I prefer the removable cattle pen to the difficult-to-access corner.)
Trackwork is flex - no soldered rail joints (I’m dealing with 100 degree temperature swings!) but jumpers soldered around them and solidly-soldered drops.
The 'sandwich (from the bottom) consists of thin plywood (braced with steel where necessary,) thin foam (fan-fold underlayment,) a thin card stock track template and either the plastic ‘under the flex track’ ties or wooden ties for my hand-laid specialwork. Shims (where necessary) are incorporated in the template layer. Everything is stuck together with latex caulk. (Aside from assisting in forming vertical transitions, the plywood serves mainly to provide a layer that will hold screws.)
I can move upper staging no problem. I’m not sure whether there will be a problem or not with accessing the “reversing” area. It is two turnouts in series there, although it looks more complex.
The good new is that whole area comes out in Phase II.
Now I can make the track work, but I am concerned with expansion/contraction, humidity, etc.
As far as making allowances for expansion and contraction I now only solder one side of the rail joiner allowing the track to slide with in the rail joiner, I have zero issues in the train room with expansion and contraction as it dry and tight and climate controlled and i have no issues with humidity. In my o/p if you over build the bench work you cut down on the chances of pieces warping or expanding and contracting. I may be off base here but as I figure it unless you have a river running under your basement you only have so much moisture to deal with lets call that the X factor. Well if you have X amount of moisture and you increase the size of the wood form a normal 1x3 or 1x4 to a 2x4 you have more wood to handle the moisture. In short there won’t be enough moisture to effect the wood.
If you had to walk away from your trackwork, what would you be sure to do?
I now use 3/4" birch plywood screwed and glued together and I bolt the adjoining sections to each other using 3/8" carriage bolts with construction adhesive in between.Strength and stability of the bench work I feel is one of the most important part of building a good layout.
What would you use for roadbed and sub-roadbed. Would you use roadbed? How would you attach the track?
No question Roadbed would be/is Homabed secured to 3/4" birch plywood subroadbed with DAP3.0 Latex adhesive caulk in some sections I have the homabed on top of homasote. This was a retrofitted section and a particular area I wanted the railroad to be as quite as possible.Latex caulking also allows for some expansion as it is not a hard contact fit. so there is a little give unlike when you use track spikes or yellow carpenters glue which dries hard resulting in a nosier layout.
What allowances would you plan into your benchwork?
I have two little things to add to the wise suggestions above:
Use 2% silver solder on the rail joints; it’s much stronger and doesn’t oxidize like other solder formulas. It melts at a low enough temperature that you don’t need a torch to use it.
Lay your track and run trains on it for a year before you enclose it in scenery. This gives you a chance to thoroughly de-bug the track.
Myself, I like Micro Engineering track better than Atlas. I think it’s worth the extra cost for the quality.
