Came up with another idea today - scroll down and let me know which one you like better.
While floating around in the pool today, I was thinking on how I can fit a decent amount of track in my basement space. After a lot of “doodling in my head”, I came in and drew it out on the computer. I posted the basement layout a while ago. The bar is going. There are two walls midway between the left and right bottom half, those are going. The accordian doors to the mechanical room will be repalced by something that doesn’t protrude into the layout space, and there will be a removable loftout there - a simple one, since it won’t be needed while the layout is in operation so all the fancy interlocking of electrical power so no one runs a train off the bottomless canyon aren’t really needed.
The circles are all 30" radius. Aisles are 3’ minimum. There are no duckunders. Staging would be in the laundry room. Track runs once around the outer permieter, then into the middle penninsula, then around again to the bottom left. Line got a little crooked but the middle would have a double sided backdrop to divide the two halves. The line that just ends in the bottom left, I’m thinking of running that into a helix over the turnback curve, then going all the way back around on a second deck and ending in a second level of staging on top of the first.
This results in (if I double deck it) over 5 scale miles of track, just for the main. I think I cna work with that.
You are going to have a lot of fun ahead of you! Keep us posted on your progress. I set up a blog for my layout using WordPress. It’s very simple. You can find a link to my layout below (I think!).
I’m not sure if you want more track or not, but you might be able to reverse the peninsula in section one so the bump faces the other direction then extend the track along the outer wall down that wall along the hallway with the laundry.
I need to do some more detailed measuring, buyt part of why I didn;t have the penninsula turn to the right was that alcove may end up completely filled with a yard, with the ladder around the curve. So to keep a 3’ or great aisle there (most likely greater, so people following their trains don’t bump into someone trying to work the yard) I need to have it go to the left.
That looks like a great plan for the space, the helix idea looks like it might work well too.
I like RI Jim’s observation, but can understand your concerns with a possible yard there.
If you’re going to deconstruct the bar, have you thought about also removing the little wall by the stairs that juts to the right, into the big room?
If you could eliminate that little wall, you could flip the direction of the peninsula so it points to the right, and even slide the entire stem and the rest of the peninsula to the left, giving you enough room for the yard.
Moving the stem to the left would give wider access to the mechanicals. Personally, I don’t trust HVAC guys to always respect a layout when they have only a few feet to negotiate (especially since you’ll likely have a lift out section and corners of the bench work will stick out near the doors too). I think they do a much better job when they are provided a lot of space…and light.
Edit: Since the stem of the peninsula would be moved left, you could put a post in the middle of it in case removing that little wall would cause a structural problem. It may seem like a lots of expense, but I think the layout would flow better and you’ll have less visual obstructions and more openness.
The stairs actually come down from the top of the picture. There’s a landing where the word ‘stairs’ is, and then both to the rigth and left are 2 steps down to the actual basement floor level. That short little wall can be removed, but the support column is right behind the end of the wall, so I wouldn;t gain much. The other walls that divide the room, to the left of the bar, will be removed.
Both my water heater and boiler are nearly brand new. The boiler is amazingly small, like most modern units. giving 3’ plus should be plenty to move the complete unit in and out - plus the door to the garage and the door to the outside are both 36" doors, so if it fits through the door, it will fit through the aisles. Also, the space where they are already is a seperate room with lighting.
I was thinking the same thing on that peninsula “end”. The stairs dropping down from the landing into “space 1” can be easily eliminated allowing a full wall extending out to the support column, the benchwork can also be run against the stair wall. If you are considering a 2nd level, this is the time to figure the location (or future location) of the Helix. It can be framed w/ benchwork and designed, but not nec built at this time. Not sure if that wall running along the landing is a half wall, but that could be done if not to not darken the stairwell.
Randy could just remove the right side stairs and relocate the post 4 or 5 feet to the right. Then bury the post in the peninsula. It would give him even more room to move around…and it would remove the S curve.
Horizontal wall at the bottom of the stairs is a full wall. Stairs are already dark, despite there being a ligh tthtere. I nee to add a second light halfway up.
Othe rpiece of the puzzle - staging will be in the laundry room, however in a few years I will have the use of that space to expand the layout as well, when I get around to my remodel for the master bedroom and turn 2 bedrooms plus a small bathroom into a master bedroom, walk-in (or maybe more liek walk through) closet, and large master bath. Excess space will fit the laundry upstairs, freeing the basement space (and making things easier for all involved, no carrying laundry up and down the steps). So the idea is to build in what I have now with the option to expand on the end.
So if I keep the width to a bare minimum against that top wall, there will be enough room to remove the wall along the side of the stairs (there’s a wall on the other side as well, making a closet under the stairs) on both sides and allow free walking unde rthe stairs without too low a clearance. I won’t gain a ton of space, but there should be enough space to extend down the length of the wall, come out in anothe rpenninsula, then loop back again for the relocated staging. The very far left of the laundry space I would probably keep layout-free to use as a work area, since there’s already a laundry sink there.
Now the ultimate would be to go full Koester and go right out into the garage. The garage is 2 cars wide (and then some), and it’s almost deep enough for 2 cars end to end. So if I did the half-wall to hoof height and then cantilevered over above where the hood of the car would be, I could add a siginficant amount of space. Not to mention a significant amount of cost to make all that proper fire walls per code. Think I’ll hold off on that.
The helix would go over the turnback curve in the lower left. Various grades over the run would already get me somewhat higher than the track on
The horizontal line under the word stairs - that’s the middle of the hose, fron tto back, and where the main beam is. The post hidden in that short wall is abou dead in the middle. No way am I altering the main support posts holdign the house up. John Allen I am not. (story related by John Page says if Allen found a support post int he way, he just took it out. At one point, his dining room upstairs was only safe to walk through by staying close to the walls). If I moved that post all the way over to the middle of the penninsula, I’d definitely need to add a second one slightly to the left of where the original was to compensate. And that’s just guessing, for real I’d need permits and a proper structural engineer to take a look at it. That’s a lot of work and worry for something that buys me almost nothing with this track arrangement. Moves the vertical part of the penninsula about 2 feet to the left, shortening the bottom part my the same 2 feet in order to make the penninsula hook to the right instead of the left - by about the same 2 feet.
Might be some nasty weather later this week when I can;t go in the pool, so maybe I’ll get chance to rough out the full main, upper and lower, with lines that actually connect and are parallel where they need to be. Then I can see if there is space for sufficient sidings (and a branch line or two).
I think the plan is ok the way it is, I was just tossing out other thoughts in case they weren’t considered. I think if we are looking at the center line of the track, adding the benchwork around that silouette with sufficient clearences from track to edge will create some tight ailses, but you already know that.
Since the horizontal wall is about half way from the top of the plan to the bottom, I was assuming it was a structural wall supporting the first floor with the post also supporting along that plane. If that wall isn’t a supporting wall, it can be removed in its entirety…not sure it really helps the design though.
Yes, if the first floor is supported solely by the post, then the post can’t be moved very easily. However, contractors can use two posts spaced apart from each other to replace one, and it really isn’t that hard for them or that costly. It might even make the first floor more solid since the spans between the supporting post(s) would be shorter. I think pouring new small footers under the posts would be the biggest expense.
Have you consulted a contractor just to see what could be done with the walls, stairs, and post and how much it would cost?
Myself, I build smaller layouts which would fit in one of the spaces as they are, but you are investing a lot of money into a basement filling layout. It might be worth it in the long run to have the supporting structures where you want them.
I’m sure you’ve put a lot of thought into your situation. It would be my luck that having access to more space in a few years would change how I would want the entire plan to be, and I would have to consider relocating peninsula’s and any helix’s shortly after they were built.
So true, and not just “your luck”, by eventually gain the additional laundry space, I would consider it in the overall track plan, even possibly placing the helix there.
Randy,
I see tha problem w/ relocating lally support columns. So that horizontal wall @ the stair landing should then have 2 or possibly 3 supports. That is most likely the reason the wall extends (jogs) out into space #1. I bet a colum is within that and only studded @ the end for DW. Moving any columns would be quite counter productive, and the entire frame, load, spans would have to be re engineered and certified/ stamped. Generally moving a column 6-8" is not a problem and still may rest on the footing, providing that the max span of the girder/ beam is not exceeded. The cost of this for such minor intrusions into the plan would be prohibitive. Not sure if that girder is supporting only one floor, bearing partition and ceiling or 2 floors. But I would pass. Guess you need to grab a “cold one” and go back to "floating in the pool for more ideas! Not bad for rough layout so far.
The horizontal wall at the bottom of the stairs and the horizontal wall of the mechanical room have more support posts embedded in them, (one at the far left end of the wall and another at the corner of the mechanical room).
Looking from top to bottom, the basement is divided basically in half, with each half being 12 feet. I was assuming the first floor joists are 12 feet long (running vertically in the picture) and are hung off of a beam that runs the horizontal length of the basement. That beam would be supported by posts that are embedded in the walls.
Now looking horizontally, the bar area has a long unsupported span of 12 feet and the wall at the staircase is twelve feet long, so there would be another post at the far left end of that wall. That would make two posts spaced twelve feet apart from right to left that support the center beam (a total of three posts in the basement including the one that is likely imbedded in the corner of the mechancals room)
Yes, that might be a problem to move the post.
But the walls of the mechancals room might be available for destruction…
Just wait, we’ll have the whole basement torn apart before this is over.
Oh, pretty much the whole basement WILL be torn out. The walls are finished - with UGLY paneling. I doubt the cinderblock walls were ever sealed behind it. The floor has a cheap and very stained carpet - that will come up and the cement cleaned and I was plannign on using that Rustoleum basement finishing epoxy product. Once the layotu si built, I will put carpet tiles or similar in the aisles to avoid standing on bare cement. Ceiling is already a drop ceilign but it’s dropped pretty low and there isn’t much lighting. I may try to get away with raising the existing grid and just buying new tiles to repalce the dirty and broken ones.
As for the supports - the far right wall, where I didn;t extend it down past the mechanical room, is the foundation wall. To the left, that wall there going vertically is another block wall between the basement and garage. There is as far as I know just the one column in the middle. There MIGHT be another one in the left end of that horizontal wall, but there is not one in the wall of the mechanical room, no is there one in the wall fo the bathroom which is not accurately shown in my diagram, but there is actually a short horizontal wall coming in from the gargage wall, like the mechanical room on the opposite side. The beam runs right throught he middle of the bathroom ceiling - if there was a column there, I’d know it was there.
As for the restof the house, there’s just oen floor, and then the roof with attic space under it. If I reconstruct the bar, it may be as an outdoor thing - and since the pool sits up higher than the patio and rear entrance of the house, in fact sits up just about the right amount - I keep toying with the idea of a G scale line from the patio to poolside (harbor scene?) to deliver food and drinks. Run it all the way around the pool and have working side dump cars and I could have the train replenish the chlorine tablets in the skimmers. Hazardous materials train, of course.
Randy looking at your drawing the section #2 (bar) according to the squares it shows as 14 x 12 but no big deal one way or the other But you say there is only one support for the entire span of 38 feet ?? MY basement is 30 x 60 and is a one story house the beam down the center is three 2 x 12 ans has four (4) support posts under it If yours has only the one someone may haave taken out a couple unless the beam is steel 18 to 20 feet is kinda long with no posts
how ever I think you are going to have a nice layout down there I wish my stairs came down in the middle like yours
