I thought they said "DCC is Easy and only needs two wires?"

Model Railroader Electronics and DCC
1

I’ve been a modeller since the early 1960s and my three rail Hornby Dublo 4 x 8 train set.

I’ve gone DCC for two weeks and am absolutely lost! Instruction book that is pages long and assumes, like all instruction books do for almost every product, that you know as much about the product, DCC in this case, as the writer of the instructions does.

Why are there no step by step instructions for every single thing you need to do?

The instruction assume that you remember on page 60 what you were instructed to do on page 7 so as you can get to what you want to do on page 60. In other words, you need to learn the whole book so as you can do one thing!

I need and Idiot’s Guide to DCC!

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

2

http://www.wiringfordcc.com/intro2dcc.htm

That is a pretty good beginners guide. If you have any specific questions or areas you would like explained better, feel free to ask.

3

“Wiring for DCC” is a good site, but it goes into an awful lot of detail, some of which isn’t needed for many situations. For newcomers to DCC, I think books are often more helpful, as they offer a step-by-step approach:

Basic DCC Wiring for Your Model Railroad: A Beginner’s Guide to Decoders, DCC Systems, and Layout Wiring

I know several people who literally have just plugged in DCC systems and run, but obviously that’s not always the case.

4

In what way are you lost?

Looking at your photobucket, you have quite an extensive complex layout. Is this the layout that you are using the DCC? Was this layout previously DC?

If so, was the DC control of this layout nothing more than 2 wires connected to the layout from the DC pack? I suspect not, and frankly there is no way that DCC would be as simple as that for such a layout.

The first thing you need to do is make sure that the layout is correctly wired for DCC use. This may be the root cause of all your issues? Once you have a bulletproof wiring and track solution then you can tackle the actual use of DCC.

If this were nothing more than a loop, then DCC would be very simple and basic, 2 wires and not much else, but I sense that what you are tacking is much more complex?

5

Is Hornby 3 rail AC or DC and what voltage does it run on?

6

Hornby 3 rail is ancient stuff, can’t imagine for one minute that this is what he is converting to DCC? I think that was mentioned to show how long he has been a modeller, kind of like referring to an old Lionel set from the past.

7

What DCC system? Both Digitrax and NCE manuals have a pretty basic step by step at the beginning of the book. Literally - connect this wire her,e that wire there, then press this butotn, that button, and finally this button, then turn the knob. Honestly it doesn’t get much simpler than that. I dunno how they could make it any easier. That covers maybe 80-90% of the day to day operation of the system - select a loco, control the speed, change direction. The rest is just gravy: programmign CVs, consisting, adding other bit like extra boosters, occupancy detector, signals, stationary decoders, etc. Don’t need that at first.

–Randy

8

Using NCC and connecting DCC to the track and the associated wiring it’s breeze. Just as it was with DC.

It’s things like programming speed curves so that all the engines I want to m.u. and double head run at the same speeds. I’m trying to reset two decoders after screwing them up (Yes, followed instructions and pressing bell still gives whistle and forward still = reverse and visa-versa ). I want to programming braking and accelerations rates etc., etc.

Some of the instructions assume you’ve remember what you did 20 pages before. I can’t remember what I had for lunch. Must be old age setting in because I get confused. :frowning:

I’m not interested in programming the operation of switches, turntables, signals and other “accessories” etc., etc., from the DCC throttle as I don’t consider that prototypical as the engineer doesn’t do that from the cab anyway, at least not in 1958.

Good grief, it’s not like I’m a newbie!

BTW, this is for a new GER not the old one shown in my sig.

9

OK, so the real question is

How do I speed match two locomotives using an NCE ??? System?

It would help to mention the model of DCC system you are using and the throttle model that you are using and also what decoders are being used?

A second question is

How do I reset decoder brand XX with the aforementioned NCE ?? system?

again more specific information regarding the brand and model of decoder would be helpful in providing very specific answers to your questions.

For what it is worth there are many opinions of the best method to speed match. There are tons of articles on the web, on Youtube etc.

10

Biggest part about speed matching - you don;t have to, at least, not to make the dang thing so perfect they run in lockstep no matter what. You didn;t have to do that in DC, you don;t have to do it in DCC. It’s oen of those “just because you CAN doesn’t mean you HAVE TO” things in DCC

Unless you are using Tsunami sound decoders, one fo the few lacking the feature these days, you don’t NEED to use the speed tables for matching, either. For decoders that support it, meaning, most any current production decoder EXEPT Tsunami, you can use CV2, start voltage, CV5 top speed, and CV6, mid speed. and get your locos close enough to run together.

Second, programming 28 speed table entries plus a forward and reverse trim and the change to CV29 is not a job for the throttle. It’s why programs like JMRI were invented. If you have a PowerCab you’ll need to buy the NCE USB interface, if you have a PowerPro all you need is a suitable serial cable or adapter to connect it to your computer. The JMRI software itself is free, and while there is a leraning curve there, it also makes ALL the tedious aspects of programming decoders pretty much go way - reduced to check boxes, drop down lists, and sliders.

ANother caution about some of the attempts to make things easier with NCE - they have a few options like a decoder reset in the menu on the cab - do NOT use this for anythign but an NCE brand decoder, it’s not a generic reset, it sets a bunch of CVs to factory default values - some that are generic (ie, aprt of the NMRA standard) and some that are NCE-specific *ones that manufacturers are free to define for themselves). If you use that on a non-NCE decoder, it could set somethign that shouldn;t be set, and only make things worse. Each decoder brand is difference, the individual manuals will tell you how to perfrom a reset. And the rest is always your safety net - if you mess up the programming, you can do a reset and restore the decoder to factory defaults, undoing anything you might h

11

rogertra,

DCC is easy and only needs two wires.

But, as others have said, and as you yourself have acknowledged, you are way past that point.

You are attempting some rather advanced programming of some sophisticated decoders so you need to be more specific about what you are trying to do.

You need to consider something like JMRI Decoder Pro to simplify your tasks.

Rich

12

Here is some great info that one of the guys here put in, it might answer some of your other questions and help, print it out and keep it handy and make a 2nd copy to add your own notes to. Here is the clikable link, Jim.http://00200530.pdl.pscdn.net/002/00530/MRH04/DCC%20Shortcuts%20Card.pdf

13

I see that statement in different DCC forums by those with experience. It is true to a point but not much further.

Rich

14

Not all decoders are the same. Even of the same brand. One where CV2 will move the engine at I or 2, may need it to be set to 5. Which means you may need to adjust to the engine that starts with the higher value.

One engine using CV3 to set starting momentum may need a different value then an other.

It does, like many thing, get easier the more you do it. But when you do it really ads to the fun.

15

Well first, if the layout worked in DC, it will work in DCC. For now, try just changing the engine’s addresses, andjust run trains and take time to get used to DCC. The engines will run basically the same as they did before.

When you do want do more, be aware you don’t need to do speed curves to speedmatch, in fact it’s probably easier if you don’t. Just leave it as a straight line.

Decoders have three CVs (“Control Values”) that control speed. CV2 is for starting speed (i.e., how much power does the engine get when you first apply a little power), CV 5 (top speed) and CV6 (midrange speed. As they come from the factory, decoders are set with all three at zero, meaining the CV’s are in effect bypassed. At full throttle the engine will go as fast as it will go, and at 50% throttle will go half as fast as it will go.

You can slow an engine down with the CVs, but you can’t make it go faster than it can go already. So when speed matching, it might be best to take your slowest engine and try slowing the others down to match it.

Take an engine you want to slow down to match a slower engine. Put them both in a consist - either follow your systems instructions, or temporarily change one engine so both have the same ID no. That way, you can run them together (about a foot apart, or on parallel tracks) and see how they run compared to each other.

Take the one one you want to slow down and in CV5 enter say “200”. This will slow the engine down about 20-25%. See how they run together now. If it’s still too fast, try “150”. If that’s now a little too slow, go up to say “160”. Just keep doing that a little at a time until the engines run at the same speed.

If one engine starts quicker than the other (that is, when you crack the throttle open, one engine starts moving and the other doesn’t) you can add a little value to CV2. That will give the lagging engine a little more power at the start so it starts when the other one does.

I generally put at least a little momentum

16

"Decoders have three CVs (“Control Values”) "

Actually that is “Configuration Variables”

18

Not all decoders come with the three CVs you mentioned. Some have 2 of them, and I think some may only have 1.

19

So you have jumped straight into the advanced features. No one has ever said the advanced features of DCC were simple and only took two wires. The simple two wires scenario is for when people want to hook the power up to the layout, throw a few trains on and run them.

Actually though, I am surprised that you need to speed curve the locomotives. If you were running them together on the old system they should still run just fine together on DCC without doing speed curves. Seems like there is something up with that. Did you use different types or brands decoders in each of the locomotives? If so the directions for each decoder could be different. I once screwed up a Digitrax sound decoder because I tried to use the BLI directions to program it - grumble.

20

So you are haing trouble remembering stuff from page 12 when readig page 70? me too but don’t think they should reprint page 12 on page 71 just for convenience. would make themanual a whole lot bigger.after a while you will find the siMple stuff to be second nature and won’t have to keep backing up on tj manual$. NExt thingyou lknow yoi will be answering new DCC"ers questions on forums.

.Martin Myers

(Still waiting for BGE in balto.)