So for IAIS or CSX trains traveling into Chicago via the old Rock Island main, where do they go after Joliet? I know that there is a connector at Blue Island to transfer to the IHB Main which can take them to the Clearing Yard, but beyond that is just the very small Blue Island Yard, a connector to the BRC/NS Mains (which I really don’t think CSX uses), and then beyond that you’ve got another connector pretty close to downtown Chicago that goes to NS trackage, and then you’re practically at LaSalle St. Station (not including the connector to the CN St. Charles Air Line, which I know isn’t used by freight). So where do IAIS and CSX go?
Both IAIS and CSX use trackage rights over Metra to Blue Island. At that point, both lines will use a connecting track to pick up the IHB/B&OCT at Blue Island. IAIS trains will then back into IHB’s Blue Island yard for interchange and CSX trains will back into Barr. Freight service on Metra lines north of Blue Island is provided by Chicago Rail Link.
How did the Rock Island deal with their freight back in the day when they still existed?
A few years ago, Trains had a cover story on the Rock Island’s “Fast Train”. My magazines are all packed away downstairs, so I cannot access them at this time. If I recall, the Rock actually had an advantage, according to the author (a Rock employee) due to their southern exposure in Chicago.
Interline freight from eastern carriers such as NYC, PRR, and others did not have to travel thru Chicago to access CNW, CBQ, and others. There was a yard at 95th street. The Belt Railway of Chicago (BRC) map in old Official Guides show the yard as “South Chicago Yard” and “CRI&P South Chicago Yard”. Does that mean the yard was a joint yard operated by both railroads?
That yard would have provided excellent interchange from both NYC and PRR. Remember that for a time NYC ran trains to the Rock Island on the Kankakee Belt, exchanging west of Chicago and avoiding the mess.
A detailed look at the Rock Island’s Chicago freight operations would be interesting.
ed
Yeah, that makes sense, I know there was a yard on BRC around 87th street that is gone now, and from satellite photos I can see where the 95th street yard probably was.
The RI and BRC South Chicago yards were separate and side-by-side. They ran just north of 95th Street from about Stony Island to Commercial. They were on an embankment and if you drive on one of the streets that pass under the yards you will note that there are concrete pillars under the RI yard and steel pillars under the BRC yard.
So now only a BRC yard remains there, correct? NS doesn’t use that yard, they use their own 103rd St. Yard just south of there, right?
The 95th Street yard is still in use. It can be seen from the Skyway Bridge.
Did BRC take over the CRI&P portion of the yard?
ed
I think the Rock Island portion may be torn up… not totally sure though… there’s a lot of open, empty space just west of the BRC yard and north of the mains, I’m guessing that’s maybe where the Rock Island yard was?
What was Burr Oak Yard used for? Perhaps interchange with IHB and GTW?
How the Rock Island interchanged with the B&OCT, IHB and GTW at Blue Island:
Most inbound (to Burr Oak/Blue Island Yd) freights from Silvis would have a interchange block on the rear end. A switch crew with an engine and caboose (transfer style) would be waiting in the clear on north side of main track and have their caboose shoved in the clear on the IHB (north) or GTW lead (south). The switch crew would go out on the north main track, grab the road caboose and block of interchange cars, then pull west to where they could shove toward the yard caboose. after making joint and shoving east with the transfer cut, the switch engine would tie the road caboose onto the remainder of the road train and that train would then proceed into BI yard. The switch engine then went back against their transfer train and when got enough brake pipe air pressure would shove toward dwarf signal at Cal Sag Canal bridge controlled by Grand Trunk Tower (now called Blue Island Jct). When the Grand Trunk operator saw Rock Island shoving toward/or stopped at signal he would then notify IHB dispatcher at Gibson. The time at the dwarf signal was the Rock Island’s interchange time with whichever carrier train was going to. IHB dispatcher would instruct GT operator to either hold RI at signal or to line them into either the “Long Track” (next to IHB main) or “Industry Track” (next to Clark Refinery). Both of these tracks came together before connecting back into IHB eastward main track just short of 127th St. The RI crew would shove west until engine was past signal by the tower to go to IHB or B&OCT. The go to GTW one would shove out the GTW lead and shove toward canal. Then would head into GTW BI yard using hand throw switch near Vermont Street. All these moves were done without radios using air valve on caboose and/or hand signs. Transfer to the three roads could and d
rrboomer:
That was an incredible amount of information. I understood about 25% of it (not your fault). Train Watchers Map of Chicago by John Szwajkart will probably help.
The entire proceedure you outlined at Blue Island, without the use of radios is pretty amazing.
Thanks for sharing.
ed
rrboomer:
Ok, your descriptions are beginning to make more sense. The key is to have a 1970’s map on hand.
You mentioned “Irondale line” (interchange with CWP&S) and the “Iron Dale Yard”. Are these on the same line? Is the “Irondale line” the track splitting off of the Rock Island at Pullman Jct and heading due south? If so, it passes underneath I-94 and currently is an NS yard. Is that the location of “Iron Dale Yard”?
It seems that Rock Island interchanged with BRC both at Clearing and at 95th Street (South Chicago Yard). Is that correct? Why two interchange locations? South Chicago Yard would have been ideal for PRR interchange, but was NYC interchanged at Blue Island Yard with the IHB?
As Carl asked earlier, what was the purpose of Burr Oak Yard? Was it a support yard for interchange with IHB, GTW, and BOCT?
Looking up Chicago West Pullman and Southern, it was owned in the 1960’s/1970’s by International Harvestor. Was there a IH plant in that area? They show about 10 miles of trackage rights. Do you recall which lines they had trackage rights. It appears on the map there were two segments separated…Ashland and 120th Street and the north south line which was by Torrence Avenue. How were those connected?
What a fascinating complex world of railroading existed on the South Side of Chicago back in the 1970’s.
ed
Will try to answer in pieces with So Chgo/Irondale first:
My Bing Maps list of places
Click on the star lower left and hopefully will bring up about 14 push pins.
To the west of yard office was “B” yard of 13 tracks. Plastics outfit still at west end was right next to switching leads. “A” yard to the east has 8 tracks and had a lead east toward RI Jct. If the RI ever had a roundhouse at So Chgo I don’t know where it was located. During my time they had a track south of A8 just east of yard office could hold maybe eight units, plus one other short track… Aeriel photo shows small pond dig out with oily water in it. That is about where it was
BRC-RI interchange at So Chgo was minimal, usually grain that got routed to wrong area elevator. I only remember going to their 95th St yard twice. PRR did interchange at South Chgo. they brought their transfer to So Chgo and RI took their transfer to PRR Colehour Yard just over the Indiana line on south side of PRR main where it makes a jog to north .
Tracks going south just to west of Pullman Jct are the ex Pullman Railroad which RI took over in '40’s(?). First yard was called 97th St. Sherwin Williams had large plant at 103rd St on east side of track. where it makes the loop over Dan Ryan and heads north was Port Yard. Two large grain elevators located for lake boat loading. RI also switched around south side of port.
I’ll answer about Burr Oak tomorrow, it’s getting past the d
rrboomer:
Thanks for the Bing link. I didnt get the 14 push pins. Perhaps you can try again…if you cannot or it doesnt work, that will be ok.
As long as you want to discuss the geographical South Side of Chicago railroading, I am interested and will probably bombard you with questions. That whole area is interesting now, and only a fraction of what it must have been.
It would be very interesting to compile a database, if you will, of Chicago operations before all the mergers and before all the industry left.
I am familar (somewhat) with the line heading south from 97th street. I have a customer in Pullman and have developed an interest in that line. BTW, it is all welded track now. Port Yard makes sense (Port of Chicago). Did RI deliver much grain there?
Ed
Chicago Rail Link (OmniTrax)
The engine facility at Irondale is still very much there and in use.
A couple of corrections and clarifications: CNW Irondale was an isolated section just off of 118th and Torrence that switched Cargill and Continental Grain elevators at that location. I remember a CNW SW1200 routinely assigned there.
On the Pullman line, the Sherwin Williams plant was located at 115th Street, easily verified by one’s nose when the plant was still operating. EMD had a fabrication plant at 103rd Street, just east of Gately Stadium. Pullman-Standard was north of 111th Street.
Chicago West Pullman & Southern was indeed owned by International Harvester, it switched a plant at 120th and Halsted on the IC Blue Island Branch and also switched the Wisconsin Steel Works, which was IH’s own steel mill. The two segments were connected by trackage rights over BRC and IC.
MC:
The engine facility at Irondale was never the Rock Island’s Sorry if I gave that impression.
CSSH:
Indeed the Sherwin Plant was at 115th St, I never knew about 120th St on the IC branch.
Try the Bing map again, PLEASE let me know if it doesn’t work this time::
Dick
CShaveRR asked: “What was Burr Oak Yard used for? Perhaps interchange with IHB and GTW?”
Burr Oak Yard had two sides, the “Infreight” on west side of yard, tracks 1-22. “Outfreight” tracks 24-47. I recall some old times saying it had a 48 or 49 track at one time. Track 23 was accessed from both leads and had track scale under 127th St bridge. Tracks 1-5 were the long receiving tracks for road trains and departure for long transfers going north (such as Clearing or South Chicago) and/or west to GTW, B&OCT, IHB with crossovers just north of 127th St all the way across, Tracks 43-47 were the long Outfreight receiving (Transfers) or road train departures and had crossovers all the way across. The infreight yardmaster’s office was ground level in the Prairie St building, trainmasters, superintendent, clerks were on 2nd floor. Outfreight YM was elevated on 127th St bridge, switchman’s shanty and clerk were located right under him connected by the pneumatic tube or yell real loud system.
The infreight lead job switched from the south (west) end and outfreight lead from the north (east) end. The whole yard was slightly descending to the west, so the outfreight field man had to be vigilant keeping his tracks tied down to prevent roll out. Outfreight also had another engine switching at west end of 24-47 called the “York St”.
Burr Oak also had a Rip Track north of Prairie St to about big storage tank at roundhouse that ran parallel to eastward suburban line main track. The wrecker pocket was next to rip track under bridge and coach yard was between
Ok, a few comments/questions:
Is it correct that Irondale Yard was (is) north of 104th Street? Bing shows a decent sized yard there. Who current owns/operates that?
There is an engine facility at 104th which is Omni. I have been there on business and there are always a number of first generation switchers, geeps, etc in various stages of repair. Was that CWP&S’s engine facility?
Ok, help me out here. There was an Iron Dale which was CNW yard? Paul, you said it was “isolated.” How did CNW move freight there? By rights? Why would they have had a yard there? It doesnt seem to fit into their system.
The map which is being referenced shows the BRC and RI yards on 95th as follows…RI yard (South Chicago) is the located on the southern and western part, while BRC’s yard is northern and eastern. Is this correct? If so, did BRC purchase the RI yard and then abandon most of their old yard? It appears in aerial photos that the North and western portions are now gone.
Hope that makes sense.
Boomer, again, thanks for your descriptions of terminal ops. You might have covered this earlier…but how did RI and EL interchange? Was there much interchange between the two?
Finally, for now, is it safe to assume that Burr Oak Yard was the center of operations (freight) for the Rock Island in Chicago? It seems so, based on your descriptions.
ed