I’m curious as to what lines the IC sold off in the 80s - to whom, dates, etc - and more specifically, what of that is still in operation?. I know that’s a fairly broad area, as they spun off thousands of miles, but there are railroads such as the Paducah & Louisville and Indiana Rail Road who are doing well for themselves on old IC trackage. Any maps or other info would be appreciated. What if all of those lines in southern Indiana, Illinois, and Kentucky were a regional today? Seems like it’d work if it were under the right management.
ICG created 5 regional railroads during the 1980s with those line sales, they were the trendsetter.
Gulf and Mississippi was the first one, 757 miles on July 10, 1985 for $22.5 million.
From the Classic Trains Website-
“Gulf & Mississippi was Illinois Central Gulf’s first major 1980’s regional spinoff, on July 10, 1985, but the 715-mile carrier-comprised mostly of two parallel ex-Gulf, Mobile & Ohio north-south lines in Mississippi-was never healthy. It was facing bankruptcy when MidSouth, in part to preserve the then-hot regional-spinoff movement, acquired G&M through new subsidiary SouthRail Corp., on April 14, 1988. Most G&M lines survive under Kansas City Southern.”
SouthRail, and parent MidSouth, were purchased by the Kansas City Southern on January 1, 1994.
States served- Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee
Photos Photos
Next was the Chicago, Central and Pacific, 777 miles on December 24, 1985 for $75 million.
From the Classic Trains Website-
“The second of five major Illinois Central Gulf spinoffs. In December 1985, Chicago, Central & Pacific was essentially the old IC Iowa Division. IC in the 1960’s had dropped usage of long-time green diamond emblem in favor of a “split-rail I,” so CC&P acquired rights to the old logo. IC, seeking to broaden its traffic base, in June 1996 repurchased CC&P and made it a subsidiary.”
From the Iowa Dept. of Rail Website-
"The Chi
Chicago Central & Pacific also abandoned the branch line heading up to Sioux Falls,which dead ened at the IC passenger depot accross the street from my office.
RRFouse: The Illinois Central was a composit of many smally railroads that were incorporated into its system to create the North-South Railroad it became in the Twentieth and Twenty-first Centuries. Part of that system were a couple of lines in Mississippi, The Yazoo & Mississippi RR and the Yazoo Delta RR. It was the Y&MV that was imortalized by WC Handy in is song about it and also by the painting by Carol Cloar, " Where the Southern Cross The Yellow Dog." The Y& MV was known as the 'Yellow Dog. Here is a website you might enjoy…
Wasn’t the Indiana Railroad also spun off from the IC in the 80’s.
Bert
Wow, great information so far!
The Indiana Rail Road and the Paducah & Louisville were both created in 1986 from old IC lines.
MS,
Wasn’t the Sioux Falls line abandoned prior to the sale to the CC&P?
As background, the ICG really wasn’t viable. Too many low volume branches, too many “tabulated” locals where obsolete union agreements required non-viable train operations, and too many people crewing each train. (28 crew members were required to move a frieght train 900 miles from Chicago to New Orleans.) And some of the management at 203 N. Michigan in Chicago just weren’t the brightest bulbs on the tree.
The strangulation from Federal Economic regulation was reduced (and sometimes removed) in the early 1980’s, but that was pretty late in the game.
At first, the holding company, IC Industries, tried to sell the railroad intact. The Southern studied the idea and made a negative offer. In other words they told the holding company that if the holding company paid them, they’d take the ICG off its hands.
So then it was decided to sell the ICG in segments. Some of these new regionals worked well - Indiana Rail Road, P&L, the Meridian-Shreveport line, etc. Some of them didn’t. It would be hard to be a more total failure than the Chicago, Missouri & Western.
The performance of the Chicago Central & Pacific was so-so. I’ve never met anyone who really understands why the IC bought it back.
Anyway, what came out of this was a strong “core” system that performed well financially and was absorbed into the CN. Some new union agreements really helped with that.
There was a strong railroad in there somewhere. It just took a while to find it.
I’m not 100% sure of the timeline. When I moved to Sioux Falls in May, 1984, the line was being torn up. The lumber yard I worked for bought a truckload of the ties for landscape timbers. They were awfull!
Greyhounds is quite right, the Chicago, Missouri & Western was an abject failure for its new owners. ICG’s policy of keeping the terminal trackage was one factor in its demise, Gulf & Mississippi had a similar problem with terminal trackage. Another factor may have been that CM&W was owned by Venango River Corp., the new owners of the South Shore, and either empire-building or a longer haul for South Shore on bridge traffic may have been the goal, albeit a goal that wasn’t well thought out.
As far as IC’s repurchase of Chicago Central, one line of thought suggested that IC bought back the Iowa lines to make the entire company a less desirable merger or takeover target. We all know what happened there.
What is “terminal trackage” and how does “keeping it” hurt the purchasing RR and benefit the selling RR?
Greyhounds,
You obviously know better than me on this one. But it seems to me that the Union agreements were more of the problem for the IC than its branch lines not being profitable?
Not only is the IC’s core profitable today, but many of its regional spinoffs are doing quite well. The MidSouth, Indiana Railroad, and Paducha and Louisiville seem–at least to a novice like my self–to be quite viable as independent railroads.
The Chicago Central is a neutral–although I have to wonder what that railroad would like like if a regional were running it.
Gabe
I am also interested in a lot of the smaller lines the IC spun off. From outward appearances, the Decatur Junction–Assumption to Decatur, Illinois–seems to be getting along just fine.
Also Ed’s venerable, but lost, Newton - Evansville Sub has always been one of my favorites to study. I often wonder what would have happened to that line had the Indiana Railroad got a hold of it 10 years earlier.
Gabe
In the case of IC/ICG’s line sales, terminal trackage means the lines within an urban area where major traffic sources are often located. In the Chicago area, Chicago Central’s own trackage began at Hawthorne Yard in Cicero; Chicago, Missouri & Western’s own trackage began a bit south of Joliet Union Depot. Both roads had overhead trackage rights over the portions of the lines that were not sold but did not have access to any of the traffic sources.
There was an announcement a year or two ago that a new railroad was going to reopen the Browns, IL to Poseyville, IN part of that line to serve a new ethanol plant. Has anyone heard any progress on that ?
ed
I just recently began trying to find info on the Newton-Evansville line. What I’m pondering, is the viability of a regional composed of the Indiana RR, Pad & Louis, and the line from Newton-Evansville (and from Evansville-Princeton). Both the IRR and P&L were spun off in 1986, and I believe the IC stopped running trains over the New-Evan line in 85 - so it’s quite concievable to of had all of these lines wrapped into one larger regional, such as MidSouth was. Any thoughts on this?
I love playing that game myself–recognizing of course that it will never happen. But, how would the P&L connect to INRD under your scenario?
There is a substantail ex L&N line in Southern Illinois run by the same owners as the P&L going from Evansville, IN to a little west of Mt. Vernon, IL. I have often thought that INRD + the ex L&N Southern Illinois line + the Indiana Southern + the remnants of IC’s Newton Evansville line + the Indiana transportation museum line to Kokomo + the Central Railroad of Indiana + the Winnemac and Southern + Louisville and Indiana + CIND + the P&L would make a heck of a regional powerhouse.
If you would want to throw the TPW, Keokuk Junction, KBSR, Bloomer Line, Peoria and Peoria Heights in there, that would be fine with me too.
Just think, if I had $2 billion, I could be the president of a soon-to-be bankrupt regional powerhouse that could only exist in my imagination . . . .
I guess that is why it is, and should be, just dreaming . . .
Gabe
Ed,
I know this is going to get a Marough? out of you, but the press clip that I heard said they were thinking about relaying the track! How crazy/great is that!?!
Gabe
The connection between the P&L and INRD would been made via the Newton-Evansville line, and then the IC had a line from Evansville-Princeton, KY - a station on the P&L.
I too have thought about all of those other roads being combined into a large regional, but for my latest model railroad endevour, I’m keeping it a bit smaller. INRD (probably
http://www.indianatrails.org/Posey_Trail.htm
http://www.wedg.org/newsdetail.asp?id=12
http://www.cityofgrayville.com/news.htm -
Ethanol Plant to be built at Grayville |
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| A local company plans to construct a fuel ethanol plant on Grayville’s south side as well as restore rail lines through the area to serve the plant. The project was announced Friday, October 7th, 2005, afternoon by Ed Bailey of Browns, chief executive officer and president of Illini Cropland & Energy, and the company’s vice president, Allen Wilson of Fairfield, at the site of the ethanol plant just east of the Super 8 motel south of Grayville. Joining them was Mike Bryan, CEO of Colorado-based BBI International, a consulting firm to the renewable fuels industry, which conducted the feasibility study for the project and will guide development of the new plant. The size of the plant is “yet to be determined,” Bryan said, but he estimated it to cost between $75 and $100 million, producing 60 to 75 million gallons of fuel ethanol each year. When completed, the plant will employ “someplace around 50 people,” Bryan said. Construction will take from 12 to 14 months and will create 50 to 100 construction jobs, he said. It will be constructed on an 80-acre site Bailey purchased earlier this year from SJD Farms, based in Evansville, Ind. Total annual revenue for the plant will be $80 to $120 million, depending on the size of the plant, with 20 percent of that coming from the production of hig |