Ice, not nice. But of what concern is it to a train?

I’m not versed in removal and equipment, but does ice on tracks act as any sort of threat to train travel? And by ice, I’m familliar with not more than an inch, Northern railroads might apply differently. Or does the weight of the locomotives and sanding process most of the htreats it might cause? And I know this seems like a nobie question, but with all the slipping and sliding I’ve been doing this past Winter, I had to ask

I have heard that ice and snow buildups on crossings can cause a disaster, I wouldn’t doubt it. As for other problems I guess slipping can be an issue, but I think wet leaves are just as much of a problem with that.

One particular problem is buildup in the flangeways on crossings and switch frogs etc. that can cause a derailment because the wheel lifts off the rail.

In the case here it was no build up but trees that blocked the line form the ice.

Yes. Yes. And a lot more, too.

Yes, ice on a grade can cause a loss of adhesion or traction when going up and render brakes useless when going down; also can have same effect on level track especially from a dead start. Weight of train, sand, and a good engineer help. And snow and ice can build up between rails, thus needing a plow or flanger to clear the way. Road crossings can be a problem where ice and snow get packed in by vehicular traffic and thus need be cleared before a trian passes through. Know your railroad and what to look for. But that doesn’t always help. An engineer friend of mine rode an SD45 off the rails at an ice and snow packed grade crossing…

And furthermore! Ice or snow can and does build up between the points and stock rails at switches, and make them impossible to move. Has to be melted out or removed in some other way to throw the switch. One key switch gummed up this way can stall traffic for miles.

Another problem is snow and ice can get on the brakes and brake rigging and cause brakes to either not apply at all, or apply with less than desired force. This is a real problem in mountain railroading, but can happen anywhere it snows.

Some types of diesels and MU cars and electric engines can have trouble from fine snow getting into the traction motors, melting, and shorting things out.

And so on…

Right after New Year’s 1958, I rode the Tennesean from Chatanooga to Bristol, As I was walking out to my coach, at about 3:30 in the morning, I noticed men using steam to thaw something on the underside of one car. I do not know if they had to work on all cars or only one, or if it was brake rigging or water lines, but it was necessary. Incidentally, it was necessary to keep the steam valve at the end of a passenger train cracked open a little in extremely cold weather so that steam would be moving through the whole line from the engine. Now you just make sure that your headend power is working and is connected.

Johnny

There’s a practical reason for that too. If the steam line isn’t flowing, the steam lines at the end of the train cool off, the same way the water in your pipe at home cools down, and then it takes a minute when you turn on the faucet for it to warm up. It’s not a problem when your hot water is being used to wash your hands.

When you have a steam line, two things happen when the steam stops flowing and begins to cool off : The steam line provides heat to the passenger cars, and your passengers get cold. Second, when you have water cooling down, it can freeze and block the steam line. With no flowing steam, there’s no way to warm up the steam line again, and it slowly keeps freezing further and further from the end of the train.

While steam lines can freeze up like that the cracking of the last anglecock will help keep the heat flowing and mitigate freeezing. But air also condenses and freezes and therefore brake lines can freeze up inplaces on the line and cause braking failure. Unfortunately, cracking an anglecock on the air will cause other problems and is not practaical.

Locomotives have air dryers, so moisture in brake lines should not be a problem,.as long as Air dryers are properly maintained, and that is sometimes questionable

Biggest problem is actually on locomotives air tanks, the automatic drains freezing in open position, but then thats what fusees are designed for :wink:

But is that dryer really effective 110 cars back at midnight in the boodocks withe the temperature at zero?

If the air is dry when it leaves the engine, it should be dry when it gets to the rear end. The probability of having moisture entering the line is low, since the pressure inside should keep outside air out. It is possible that there is residual moisture along the way.

Johnny

I thought it wasn’t moisture entering the line but rather being created in the line by various changes in temperature and pressure. Then that freezes.

Condensation is what freezes, but if locomotive air is dry, there won’t be any condensation.

so there won’t be anything to freeze.

In old days Alcohol was injected into brake system at locomotive, it prevented freezing.

Today Alcohol is illegal, cause it eats the neoprene gaskets and O rings, so its air dryers or it won’t move.

I heard of an incodent in TRAINS where the frogs got caked with ice and derailed a NJT train. Also it makes for hazardous working conditons.

On the general subject of ice-related damage, in some photos of the old dome cars, you may see a horizontal metal bar that was mounted to the roof of the dome car (actually two bars - one on either side of the dome), that spanned the width of the car. It was there to bust-off any icicles that may be extending down from the roof of a tunnel, to prevent the dome’s glass (plexi-glass?) from being damaged. I’ve seen photos of NP, GN and SP dome cars with such an arrangement, and I’m sure other roads used them. I don’t know if this was something the railroads themselves added, or maybe they came from Budd that way.

Wow that’s a good idea. I don’t imagine that the domes were made of plexi-glass back then. IDK i’m not an expert of course.

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No, when the dome cars were designed and built, real glass was used. The glass in most of the windows was formed especially for those windows.

Johnny

Another issue with ice and sleet is contact with the third rail in electrified territory. I have seen subway / elevated cars with a “sleet cutter” mounted ahead of the third rail shoe for the purpose of removing ice.

John TImm

Ice sent the lead engine of the Zephyr off the tracks at a road crossing just 1/4 mile from my house 8 or 10 years ago. Hulcher was called in and had a heck of a time getting down the tracks from the next crossing cause it propelled itself down the tracks with the trucks tires, which kept spinning in the fresh snow on the tracks. It was quite interesting to watch the crew run the crane to put the engine back on the tracks. I wonder how big of a $$$ bill was for that?